When Your Children Have Hope & You Don’t | Cristina’s Story: “Wished I Could Run Away”

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. I have a wonderful friend Christina who's with me today.

So happy to have you here. I know I'm on the road and recording, but um hey, if we have the stuff, we'll go wherever and and record stories. So we're in the middle of New York City, the heart of Manhattan today And today we're going to talk a little bit about when your child has hope and you don't yet And Christina, we're gonna kind of rewind, just kinda look a little bit at how your life growing up and all, and then we're gonna fast forward to your daughters found some hope in life.

And you didn't have that. But let's start kind of, what do you want to share about your background? And I also want to say I know you are a principal.

in a school in New York City. I'm thrilled there's actually a holiday today. So I'm like, she's not gonna be available, but thrilled that that you can join us.

So I know you are very accomplished. You've worked very hard. And but take us back to where you know, where you grew up, kinda your years growing up and all.

Cristina:
And so um I was born in Ecuador. Ecuador and um my story begins there pretty much. Um I think of the title um Thrive in the Mess.

Although I was a child, I figured it was a mess in my family So um yeah my dad left um my mom and my older brother when I was about two years old. And mom, um, I looked at my grandma's house, so my grandma said to her, you have to go to America and start a new life. This is not working out.

And we had a great aunt already here who came in nineteen forty-six So it was a very scary feeling for her to leave her children, but grandma was gonna be there for us to to raise her until, you know, she can get us um back here in New York. And um I stayed with my grandmother for seven years. Mm.

Seven years. Still in Ecuador. In Ecuador, yeah.

Right. I was three, I came to America when I was seven. I did not know who was my mom.

I you know, forgot her who she looked like. So have very fun memories of my grandmother of my grandmother. Um came home, came to New York to meet my mom in 1974 with my brother.

And um I s I see a mom who was expecting with um her husband, my stepdad, and I knew who was my dad. So I come to her dislike, okay. It's what a change, what a challenge.

At the airport, John F. Kennedy. Um, I say goodbye to my mom, my grandma, who's been like my mom for seven years, right? 'Cause I was born in her house with my mom and And um it was tough during the first month.

I tapped into a new country, a new family and um a new school. didn't speak a word of English. Oh my goodness.

So wow. Yeah, chunk of a mess. I tried to change of of of that mess.

Um so my mom and my My maternal side of the family. I said maternal side of the family, they're all Catholic. A born and raised, you know, that baptism confirmation.

My biological dad I find out that my grandmother was a a devout Christian in Ecuador. So my father's side was a Jewish Christian. And I just find out that um when my mom and my dad were together, my grandma had asked can I take Christina to church?

So my mom was okay take her, you know too. So she was a she's Catholic but a cold Catholic, just take her. So when she came back And so, Oh, you know, my granddaughter's gonna be a Christian one day She said and my mom looked at her like, Hmm, I don't know about that, right?

And she says to me, she says, Okay, she was saying hallelujah. That was clapping when I was like two years old. And when I heard the story, I said my God, my grandmother praised me even back then So um back again New York, Catholic.

We were Catholic for Easter Sunday, uh Palm Sunday, Easter Sunday. And the rest it was like party every weekend. Um a lot of drinking.

Lisa:
I uh grew up And you're still a child.

Cristina:
I'm still a teenager. Seven seven years old. Still young.

Okay. So Um our family as immigrant family were very transient. I remember one year we I went to three different schools until my stepdad um was hired as a super In Willisburg.

Well not the Willisburg there is no nap. It was very chaotic. It was a little impoverished.

Lisa:
You don't even think about that. I don't think about that really with Someone who comes to the States as an immigrant and just the the transients just moving around so much and Already you're trying to adjust to a new culture, learn the language, the school. How do you make friendships then?

You know, if you're moving around and uh wow, just and the relationship like your grandma's back in Ecuador who's been your kind of your lifeline. You know, so wow. Okay, so keep going.

Cristina:
As an educator, I I really empathize for my families who are trans. So I see my I see myself in my families. Yeah.

I saw what they go into what I went through. So God used me in a way where I could give them words words of encouragement. Did you see your dad uh your No, I saw my dad within like af when I was fourteen, I went back to visit from seven to fourteen.

And then I saw him again when my brother passed away in two thousand no nineteen ninety seven and we keep in touch though we have a good uh wow uh what's up call with him.

Lisa:
After all that.

Cristina:
So be so resentful and be hateful towards it. But Lisa, I gotta tell you, during the seven years that um even he worked away from my mom's life, but he never worked away from me. And that made a difference.

Like he would pick me up when we go on break, take me to his new home in the Andes. So I have these lovely memories of going to the countryside, but it lasted for seven years. Right, that love was only for seven years, right?

And then until come to America. Um I it was very challenging being um a stepchild. Right.

There were times I felt like I was a stepchild. There were times like, you know, I you my stepdad loves me like his daughter. And deep inside I know after I mean knowing him for fifty-one years.

I know he loves me as his daughter. You know, he raised me as his daughter. But I always wish like I wish I had my dad.

Lisa:
Right. Right. Right. That's kind of a inbuilt longing I think everyone has.

Cristina:
Yeah.

Lisa:
Wow. And I gotta tell you, um

Cristina:
He there it was uh we were dysfunctional family, right? Um my stepdad worked two jobs. He was, you know, a a good provider, right? He was a super in the daytime, he was a cleaner. In the evening, actually not too far from the city.

Lisa:
Well, so here being superintendent. I hear that a lot in your city, the building. So uh that helps because you have housing Everyday thought, don't you? Right.

Cristina:
And the income that would come along. Right. And then the evening he went to uh Bud yeah, Buddy Park City and he would clean offices.

For thirty years he did that. Wow. So he was gone he provided for us and um A weekend she drank, right?

It was party and my mom was the cook. She was a great cook. So it was party and it was, you know, um uh drinking, families leaving drunk, right?

Driving drunk. Um and all the children would gather and they would be um staying late. And it was just part of like every other week in uh a part of our life.

And then for Easter Sunday or Pump Sunday we'll go to church.

Lisa:
Right. Right. But there was no What did you think about when like you visited church?

Cristina:
I was it like I gotta tell you, I went to public schools on from first grade until third grade when I moved to Winnsburgh. At that time in nineteen seventy-five, seventy six schools were really not appropriate safe for children. So I remember one classmate took a little pocket knife.

He said to me, if you don't let me in your crayons, I'm gonna use this on you. Third grade. Well like that.

That's another part in the city, isn't it? So what is Brooklyn Oakland. Right.

And um I told my parents and they said don't worry, we're gonna put you in Catholic school because Catholic schools back then were safer and there's discipline. Oh, right, right. It was not more because of religious um you know they're gonna believe it.

They wanted safety for it. Right. After the knife incident, I don't blame 'em.

Okay you need older. And they sacrificed the pay tuition, but we fell safe. And I went to Catholic school from third uh fourth grade until eighth grade and then I went to Catholic high school.

So my experience with church and religion was through the school. So this is what we this is what they told me about being forceful So the nuns was okay, fourth grade, this Sunday's the fourth grade um classes we have to you have to go to church. And if you don't show up, I will be there with a would note your absolute you get it like I shall come to church.

So with punitive So you had to go, you know, otherwise you would have the homework actually. Not really self-motivating to go. So you like you're forced to like the uh church or religion was like, oh you know, it's punitive, you have to do it.

And I'll be honest with you, you go in, it was a virtual you you kneel, you s do the sign of the cross, you sing, you know the songs. If you know the songs, you go home. Then You step out of out of your the church door and then you you go back into like you know like potty mouth you know like uh you name it right and see it was like it was everything was forgotten now.

Lisa:
What's being changed by being there during that time. If if you're leaving and there's potty mouse and all the things that you're doing.

Cristina:
For that, right, Mommy, you you have to respect the priest, you don't fall asleep on church, you have to be attentive. And then you step out and back to the old ways. So I never heard the word, I never um I never felt the spirit of God like talking to me when I started going to um a Christian church.

Lisa, there were times that I said, I wish I could run away. Well. And um I said I can because I don't have the place to go.

Lisa:
That's what I was gonna ask, where to?

Cristina:
Right, where to? Right. My dad is thousands of miles away.

So I said, you know, one thing I thank my stepdad, um, that he always forced education. He always said to me You have to um get an education where you can use your brains and not your hands because he had um and not not to attack or offend people who are in the cleaning services. But your stepdad did that.

Yeah, he did that for a living. He had an income, he had a health insurance. Yeah.

But he said you could have you have you would have better opportunities than we had in America. So whenever we have like um math was my weakness He says, You cannot get our eighty? So he was always like on top, you know, you have no boyfriends, you cannot have no boyfriends, your the boyfriends are your books.

Well so you couldn't force it that. No. Wow, that's a little rough. No boyfriend's books?

Yeah, yes the books. And then I said to him, Can I have a boyfriend when I'm eating? No, when you're thirty.

And I thought, oh my gosh You know, we joke about things like that, but I don't think he was joking. No, you were serious. He then I said Ahmad would be Alan, right?

Because I want you I must well and I actually wanted to be a nun at one point, Lisa. Well in high school I went to visit a convent and when I noticed that some of the nuns were drinking wine, I said, I thought they were pie and I said I wanna be a nun So anyway, so yeah. So he forced me.

I had no choice but to study and he really pushed me. Um and I said to myself, um, I don't want to be at my mom Hm was submissive and who accepted the abuse, you know, and the verbal abuse. And um and and the drum Another strand of mess.

Right. Yeah. That's another strand of mess, right.

I saw it became feminist And I was like, Oh, women can do everything, you know, women have brains and that propelled me to go to school and and Get a degree, you know, get an education because that was my passport to out of the mm.

Lisa:
So your education then, you uh you obviously did college. Yes. You did uh and you're an administrator.

And I did um a certificate performance to become an administrator. Wow. And now you're helping others get their education.

Fast forward, you have a family and what's start with some of that.

Cristina:
So um I um throwing that Hot mess in my twins. I mean Mr. Flores. He was my boyfriend.

I was twin. He was twenty-three. So you did get a boyfriend.

I did. That's you know that I did And boy, my stepdad when I brought him home, he like the first day he he had like his mean looks, you know. He didn't talk to him.

My husband says, Oh God, I want to really like like run out. So maybe, you know, I don't think it is worth it the day, you know, the looks. But he stick around.

And um so my my My husband probably has that for your children too now though. It's a learned father thing. You know, so those things very protective 'Cause then we marry and it says, Boy, you know, I I remember going in and seeing sometimes like beer can bottles on the floor.

And I said, You remember? Oh my god, I thought you were gonna pick up when you would come in. Right.

So when he visited you listen at home. Right. So it was like a you didn't walk away and it was no but you know, I said my God.

And there were some things that he said, you know, that I'm not embarrassed because it we were dysfunctional, you know, in my Catholic beliefs, uh grandmother and my mother believed in in in witchcraft, you know. If you lost somebody you're gonna bring up with you know with with you know witchcraft, you know. Like write their names or something, freeze it.

Oh, you wanna have someone Separate so all this beliefs, right? Growing up like going with entire cards, right? I remember being nine years old with my aunties going to the um the lady who you can see your future So this was part of my upbringing now.

Well I was sharing that with my my boyfriend and husband. Oh deals that's not of God. You know, that you don't that's not so he would hear me and he would um He never forced me though.

He never um forced, you know, the gospel upon me. He would try to model and he would say that's not you know, that's not what we thought we is being done. Very delicate.

My mother-in-law would try to invite me to church when we were dating, I think we went once and I'm like, you know, um, I felt so like, oh you know, this is so strict. Everyone's looking at me and I see all the sisters, you know, we're like skirts, they don't wear makeup, you know, back in the eighties. It was the eighties And I was like, this this is like too much restriction.

Lisa:
Right. Right. And you'd had that in the past almost by being forced to be forced to. I right. So that probably was that something you're thinking of going to a religious places kinda you have to be like pious and you have to be perfect.

Cristina:
That was my belief of being a Christian. Okay. There's no room for imperfection.

Lisa:
And and I I when it's of uh it it's so like God's love and the freedom He offers us, you know, it's anything I it's so different from what you know.

Cristina:
But I was raised that God will punish you if you do this. We would separate it, marriage separate, but we'll see each other on the weekend. But so then you had a son, dearly It wasn't so you know, so that we cannot do this. We cannot be like a family, right?

Lisa:
And again there's just Like you're saying, there were different strands of mess. And sometimes we think our mess is normal because it's all we know. But it's there can be another another option.

Yeah. No, no. Not like that. You are in that it Because that's all you know.

Right. And you think it's it's normal and it's not. God offers that we can either choose our way or God's way.

But we're not there yet. Yeah. Yeah.

Cristina:
And many times Christina was doing her way.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Cristina:
Everything was her way and a lot of survival, you know, things to to get. But I gotta tell you, um I think back now I we l Steve Jobs says when You have lived life, right? He said that's before he passed away.

I mean you can only connect the dots after you have lived life experienced. And every incident experience when you connect them yields to a past where you are and you say, Oh, that's what that happened. Oh, this is why when God had orchestrated.

This is why I met this person. I'm connected to dots and I've seen my husband was supposed to be in my life. Hmm.

And um because he kept me always he would speak about the word to me and he would you know, we would pr uh pray before, you know, um n dinner or he prays every night. He I mean he's like a model. He pr every night he gets on his knees.

That's what mom told me. So going back, you know, um I married. I have three beautiful children, you know.

AJ, who's 26 now, my girls are 20, so they're six six years apart And you have twins. And so how twins are that God is um amazing because after um we're together, we have Asia with six years. I I couldn't um get pregnant.

So I have um I suffer from um my thyroid disease, hypo uh arthrism and um I j I I will go to a doctor and say it's your thyroid or is your thyroid or you can't you know you can't earn it. So then I I resented. I was resentful to God because This one's getting pregnant and look at her look her judging.

Look at her life. Why not me? And one day I just said, Lord, you know, it was like it's in I know it's in your time.

So I stopped taking my medication. I just need torpedo. And that because I was so worried and so fixated to be pregnant, it was not happening because it was not God's timing.

Right? Now I know that. One day, three months later, maybe I'm pregnant.

Oh my goodness. I am pregnant. Then and my coworkers said, look how God is so good.

You lost, you know, two brothers. Now you have twins. Oh.

You were looking to have uh a child after for uh two years after you was born And he gave you two at once. Wow. And I'm like, he's amazing because, you know, he he did it the way he it was meant to be.

And I um I had twins. I always say, you know, when I get married, when I have my family, I want my partner, my husband to be with me like to the day, the last day of our lives. Mm-hmm.

So that's it was a part. because um I don't wanna have a stepfather for my my children. That was like always embedded me because I don't want to go through what I I don't want my children to go what I went through So that was I was like non negotiable, you know, like you cannot have no children, sorry, you you have to divorce, I'm sorry.

Lisa:
And after you did have your son you both did get back together. Yes, we and part of that was because of that. It was before children where you were right. Weekends only.

Cristina:
Yeah, we could only AJ, you know, is is born during that time. And It was a time I said, I don't want to be like my mother, right? Because I would go now I even we're married but we're separated, right? And and Only only I I remember when we saw what that did. I did in your life.

Lisa:
But that happens. We see that. I'm sure you see that with students.

We see that with family things that are from our parents or even grandparents. Just cycles, right? Cycles.

Cristina:
And now remember, um this week in family is a fallacy, believe you are family. We will go to Thunder Park. And it was like rah rah have the time but then we would go different households.

I started crying. Oh wow. I started crying because this this is not what I want.

You know, I cannot do this by myself, you know. Um I need I need my husband, you know, I need that's when I said I cannot do this no more.

Lisa:
Sometimes we have to literally butt our heads against the wall. And be like, okay, I'm at the end of me. And wow.

Cristina:
And I I and I had um Prior to that I was making plans to like leave the state, right? Like like you know, really like out of side out of mind, you know, and I had a a job line in DC

Lisa:
see uh an apartment and and ahead of the goodness this could have been so different so different oh which we wouldn't you have made you know make plans he and he didn't know that you had made plans

Cristina:
No, if Philippe he knew a way for interview, but he didn't take me serious. Oh it was like oh no he was like no this one of those things everybody but she doesn't do, right? And then he looked at me and I said, Are you really leaving?

And I says, Yes. You were babysitting agent for the interview I won like a month ago. Don't you remember?

You know, so That day, um You're like we had this conversation. Oh well. You know, that day it was um but I had to ask uh God to please guide me to say if Because I was scared to go to DC.

I was going I guess like my well but I had to do to kinda like right through and I said, God, if this is um the man's gonna be with me and race the children and race AJ, please Show me that he's the one and let him be in my life. Allow him to be in my life. Allow him to be in my life.

He said, do you want to try it one more time? Wow. And I said, yeah.

And it says, let's do it for AJ. But we're going to do it for us. I believe God had the answer.

You know, he was supposed to be my life because he made worked

Lisa:
Boy, the hand of God just in uh so many of these different ways, but you wouldn't say that you were really you really had a relationship with God yet. Like your girls COVID hits and your girls something happens with them. So right, so now we are, you know COVID there at sixteen seventh.

Cristina:
You guys are still together? Together, you know, with Normal, like we know happy. Nor normal.

Sometimes we get upset, okay, we work together, nothing. Um God bless him. He's you know he's a great man.

So COVID hits, we are in lockdown Now mind you know, I have been working long hours. I'm always like working, putting like third to fourteen hours a day. For the first time ever, I'm like a homestead mob, right?

Well and working so Even COVID, I lost aunties and cousins to COVID, but personally for me it was a blessing. And I said blessings because it's when I found Jesus. And that's how you want.

So the girls were um And what does that mean? What does that look like? Yeah.

Yeah. Um it's deep. I I got to know I got to know his love.

And I got to know that um I wasn't, I wasn't the person that that God has set me to be as a as a woman following Jesus.

Lisa:
And how did you even consider Jesus? Because your home But you said your girls have a big part.

Cristina:
They drew this. So they're in the meantime in the room They go into this um Zoom meetings. They they they partner with different needs to go to this little church which they found through uh college.

students in different states. Oh and I would go in trying to listen because even though I'm modern who are they talking to, right? You know, thinking like my dad, you cannot have a boyfriend until you're like 30, right?

Oh who are there? And you're online. Yeah, who are there?

Folks in there.

Lisa:
Some entrees the mom. It is so different now because a lot of our like our Gen Z, our children, do connect with people online. Mobile. And they feel So your girls are connecting online with people and you're listening in and listening in.

Cristina:
So there was one time, um and and and that's how she She managed to find the how to life.

Lisa:
Began young people. So there was one encourage young people.

Cristina:
Little church, some of them same um Jesus, some of the same faces there in the other There's some so dip they were like calling each other. Oh he's you know he's I saw him or her and the other. So there were there's a little something going on here.

I see them now. Um, reading the Bible. Well and so what do you do it's so late at night?

And I'm like, oh what the what do you do?

Lisa:
We always speak the worst thing.

Cristina:
What do you do when I'm around right now Now, as they're learning and they're talking with themselves, they're talking, you know, and they're participating on on this, you know, um Instagram Zoom meetings, the girls became more Um, what's the word when they use? They were calling out the things that I was not doing. Ooh.

Mm-hmm. I wanna ask you. And that was an ouch because um remember, um I'm a school leader, right?

So sometimes at work, you see you as a leader, you know, you're the boss and and the boss is always right. People don't want to challenge you sometimes. Right.

But one I remember one day, um, I should say, Oh my gosh, mama, you know, that word you use, you cannot use, you know, like I would say, uh I will do cursing like um Oh my God, you don't got go this and it's just you kind of you you try to reframe oh a potty words you know like oh this isn't that right and it was oh my goodness you call you you call every word I'd say so it was becoming like I thought I had um the like the Bible police remote like calling out her and things. And I think because she was already in the word, you know, with listening and praying. And I remember one day, um, w I I was like I I was so upset at her.

She um and I felt because I felt convicted. The Holy Spirit had used her. I remember she said to me, You know, Mama I'm talking to my mom in Florida and she comes around and she's like, I see a shadow.

And when I hang up, she goes You are gossiping.

Lisa:
You are nothing like a child to call us out. Well but you know what they speak truth because they know who know what to call me Lisa a gossiper in my lies

Cristina:
And then I felt shame. Well. Because for my daughter I was his mom, right?

She uh she those voices matter more than any other voices than my husband than my co-workers than my mom. Well my children to see me that I'm not the woman that I I was presented to be. Wow.

And when she calls me, Mama, that's so wow. Wow. And then she starts she starts saying things that were for a seventeen year old.

I thought she was six or seventeen. I said and and and I I turn around and be defensive and say, oh, I said, what is this little six to seventeen year old girl trying to teach me? Like trying to be defensive and defensive.

And she goes, Ma, it's not the sixty, seventeen year old girl speaking.

Lisa:
This is the spirit torrent and it's like So what had happened to your girls? Like why had their why had they changed and why were they like that?

Cristina:
Because there already were um with other Gen Z that were going already talking and I think people who chose to follow Jesus. Right. Wow.

And it was like black and white. Wow. So you know when we talk about it and we you know we we talk and and she said, I wanted for you to know him.

And if you're sent to to evangelized and to Talk to people who don't know Jesus, right? Like I had did not know him all my life, right? She I'm I'm her dad and mom.

I'm her, you know Ha'cor so I remember one of them was um very um persistent persistent And um I remember one time, I mean I'm at least I'm telling you it was like uh the table, um, during the covet we we got to eat it and pray. There will be prayer, you know. Oh my gosh, I said they know the word.

And I was impressed of how the transformation in them. Like they were changing my my household. They would change my household.

Wow. And and it was this um This love and negom and why aren't Tom they invite him for a Bible study? We we were reading the book of Esther.

You know? Yeah. So that's So I was reading, I was getting and it was so much fun talking and and you know, just uh trying to um understand the word.

And um by this time That rebellious um I felt convicted shame I started seeing I have to change She says, Mom I I need you. I need you to really know what you're doing. And to see your daughter in tears that, you know She wants to help you like show you you like pushing, pushing.

You don't want that. You know, you don't want to disappoint your children, right? And I remember she will come on A father said to Amber, I know I know your mother for thirty at that time thirty two years.

Um, that's not you're gonna get your mom. Y you know, is gonna preach the word, you're gonna be more like Do it with love. Print it out with love.

And she started changing her strategy. More compassionate. Wow.

Yeah. Wow.

Lisa:
And you had had that forcing through your life. And that pushed you more than doing Christina's way instead of looking at any other way. Right. Right.

Cristina:
So it was the approach. But it was her love for me to reach the Lord, you know, and nothing for for a daughter who, you know, that's a go it would be the other way around, mother to a a son, a daughter. And Um, I remember one time um you so I started listening. Her approach changed, I started listening more because I knew it came from a place of love, not judgmental.

Lisa:
Right. Once I figure that out.

Cristina:
Because that was kind of a trigger for you anyway, for that judgmental. So that once I figure, okay, no, she was doing it for love and that story. So one of them tells me, Mom, There's a retreat in Connecticut.

They're like, this one's close. This is close. There's no stooth.

Lisa:
And this is a retreat with other like Young people to follow G.

Cristina:
Yeah. Other young D was the first one they ever were and then you're retreating person. Yeah, by now they know some of the um the friends.

And by now I'm hearing I see the change. They want to grow you know, and knowing the word. You want to, you know, have a community.

And I'm buying in. I went to that retreat, asked where I met you, Lisa. You you won one of the moms.

And we're on the older end 'cause this is all Gen Z young Yeah, Gen Z. And I gotta tell you, when I saw the children I don't know young adults, the sixteen of twenty four Praising, singing, and I got so emotional. I said, I want this for my daughters and I want to be part of this, supporting my my girls and the youth. And I even end up also um speaking to the youth I didn't remember the last day of of my experience.

And um from pushing and you know being upset with them and I don't want to hear it. This is how I am. Um the gossip thing really like hit me until I realized Lisa When my mom would call, she wouldn't really gossip.

I didn't know that was gossip because I grew up my life. So when she pulls it out, now that it's it transformed I said ma I would you know deflect for she helped me when calling it out They are children via mirror. Yes, right.

And that was a whole shift. So when I started seeing and started reading, and then I said to myself, you know what? I want to join a church, a local church.

Lisa:
Oh five of us got baptized uh about two or three years ago, yeah. So I do have a question, hearing all this, when your girls were talking with you and things, did you ever feel like I I and I don't know Latino culture, but I think any parent a lot of times would be like, hey, wait a minute, I'm the parent here. I who are you to say did you feel that way? Like you're you're talking about some of you didn't want to hear that, but that's some of kind of You resisted that anyway in your life of being told what to do because of different things. And but how did you like was that kind of like, hey, you're the kid, I'm the parent?

Cristina:
Sure e you know, th that's when we work buddyheads because um I like I told who are you sixteen year old little girl telling me Yeah. You know, um telling me like how I'm supposed to behave. And I remember and else again, I told her, Well, oh well, maybe I'm not a good Christian.

I'm not the Christian you want me to be. So I was like throwing those certain terms, you know, oh I see you ca talk and you get cigars, you know throwing things back in great. So I was like you know, convicted so as a rebuttal I say who And then she said, Well, this sixteen, seventeen year old girl, you know, is this is just calling up things that you need to hear.

Mm-hmm. And I I I told her she had the courage to Like she she really put the mirror and and see the one who who yeah pointed out the things that I was doing wrong. Yeah.

And and she did it because she loves me. Yeah. And I had to step I had to step back because I felt shameful that I was doing these things.

And so now my belief is now that you know you need to do better. You know, so when I when my daughter's the ones who kinda taught me about by modeling. It was by example.

Right, right. Right? Because they were not brought in a Christian house.

So my husband's a Christian, but we would not go to, you know, a Christian church. It wasn't in And was it then? I I was Lisa through all those years I was always I was looking for Jesus uh because I'm her mom, right?

I'm I'm there's a retarian there. Sometimes you have to humble yourself And and at one point I realized that it wasn't her confronting me. Right, right.

It was they hold his hand.

Lisa:
And she loved her mom and they had hope. I didn't know. And you didn't. They're and they were growing deeper all the time with this.

And you saw them And they were saying things to you lovingly, love but also concerned. And you wanted that hope and that relationship with Jesus is that ri transforms everything. So all these years of going Christina's way and then there's God's way and your daughters began living that out in front of you, which is just beautiful.

Cristina:
It is really and and I always tell them, you know, Oh my gosh, I said why didn't Gacton know Jesus when I was in like in your age? Because when I see them the the young lady that they are. They they have the their heart for Jesus and and everything they do it it it trickles into the work life.

It trickles into their friendship life. You know, like try to follow um what Jesus would do in this situation. Right.

Um I wish I had that as as a young person, right? Um but it God had a timing. I had to go through all these things and my children had to bring me.

They they they're the path Yes. And the and I also think as a mother, like my mom um I had suffered a lot of losses, right? If we would have had done this, you know.

Jesus' way, right? Not our way. Right.

We would've perhaps saved a lot of heartache and suffer, you know. You know you stubborn and you think you could do it yourself, right? And you you know, do things of the world.

Right. It's um It's not gonna you know. Yeah.

Lisa:
And you d almost didn't have that's a way to go when you grew up with that with uncertainty and and certain things and then you wanted certainty, so you depend on yourself. But we're not we can't do at all. We're trying to Yeah.

We get to the end of it without God, right? Okay, so Christina, we've been talking, but I wanted to bring your girls in. Let me see if I can remember.

Okay, we have Jade and Amber, your twin girls. And let me see, Jade No. No, I can't say I can't see that you gotta pull your hair back. Okay, Jane Bertha.

So so sorry. I really should know that. But I know different things about you all, but I've so appreciated your uh joy for Jesus, the hope he gives you knowing him and having that relationship, then your mom and I love how you were kind of like calling her out.

Like mom that's gossip or like mom that's uh Yeah. You know, uh you shouldn't be talking like that. And and you were saying it from a place of love because you're her uh her daughters, but then I asked her, Well were you kinda like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're the kid on the pair and honestly we should be open to hearing from anybody who's a mirror because that can be that little nugget of truth like Mom, why did you respond that way?

Or, you know, dad, what you know, uh you found this relationship with Jesus where I do want to jump in real quick that even with that sin, you know, we want to have that relationship with Jesus with God, but we can't get uh um that sin has to only God can get rid of that. And so uh you know, when we talk about even Easter and you said you used to go to church for Easter you know, growing up and that one of the only times you went, but when Jesus died on the cross and just the blood of Jesus, just he was the last sacrifice. You know, the Old Testament is full of all these sacrifices and Jesus being the last sacrifice.

and his blood able to get rid of the sin that sin, our sin, our junk, our my way. And then we can choose to have that relationship with just saying, God, please, I'm sorry. I want to change from going my way to your way.

And then we can have that relationship with him. He can clean our hearts and we can have that. So you guys had that going on.

Yeah. Were you like talking with each other or just like saying things about, you know, mom this or my or just kind of speaking out on uh who'd you say would argue with you more, Amber? And that's a she's doing a little further away.

Now I'm here in the moon. She's up the way. Figured to give a little buff.

No, but uh but were you praying for your mom individually together? Like what was going on with you guys like during that time? Wow.

So I well, little backstory.

Jade and Amber:
I came to know the Lord personally in twenty twenty. And for that time during the pandemic where I was really just to myself, I had that one on one like time with the Lord where I can really like know who He is and like what that means for me. And as I'm reading like scripture, I'm reading the New Testament, reading the Gospels, it's like a love letter that I'm just like being undone for the first time Wow.

And seeing how it would like take apart and reconstruct my life, my worldview and how I'd see things, it then made me consider like how can this affect my family? Like I I'm seeing the ways I've been healed in my thi my thick my thinking patterns, how can that, you know, transfer to my mom? 'Cause I 'cause when I'm seeing it, I'm seeing it like I I love my mom, I'm looking at her and a lot of things that like I was struggling with could be passed down or like I grew up with So I'm like, how can I, you know, like plant these seeds and and hopefully see like the freedom and like being like the redemption in your life?

And For a long time, like I held a burden that was like like a a heavy weight on my chest. I was like, I wanna see my parents like in love with Jesus, but like I want them to feel his love and more than anything and Because you felt is I freed such freedom and less. And experiencing that with like in the confinement of your own house, like you really can't go out.

You had like these limits, like you wanna tell everyone. So who's the first person you can tell when you're not in this like ministry setting, you're not even plugged into a church? It was your family.

And so I I just felt conflicted a lot of the times. And I had conversations with the Lord where I would be in tears. I'm like, I don't know how to do this.

I feel like alone. I don't know. Like I had this like idea that I had to convert her, but then I had to realize like throughout time, like it's it's really like Trusting it's like a a battle that's like only won by the Lord.

Like it's nothing that I can truly say, but it's like the the seeds that I can plant in that moment and pray that like the watering will take place. And so we'd have conversations at night. I'd I sometimes come to her like crying and she'd be like, Okay, like what's going on?

I'm like mom, like you understand And so it I I feel like now growing up, I was I think fifteen at the time. There's different approaches I have now. But like saying that's gossip.

No. So my problem is different.

Lisa:
But that actually that comment really hit home with you. That was a big I don't know who said the gossip line. That was like it's like I'm not owner that way. But I that really even though that was very hard right like

Cristina:
I I can be that person that might go over the scene. Yeah. You know, I I have to be better than that.

Yeah. Because deep deep inside my heart and it was gossip. You know you talking about the And I learned if you have nothing nice to say but say anything.

Lisa:
Don't share anything. I you know, it is truth and it might sting, but it can be very impacting in someone's life too. So yeah, but Yeah. Wow.

Jade and Amber:
So yeah, it was a lot of conversations. It was even Jade as she started getting into it not too long after I did, we'd have conversations. We'd do prayer. Like we'd be praying every time before we go to bed. We'd pray like forty-five minutes and we're like praying for like literally like no, we were prayer warriors.

Lisa:
Like it was crazy. Jade, you were talking about a little bit about what changed with your mom.

Jade and Amber:
Yeah So when it comes to praying for your family, like I was praying for my mom. Um, and like a new, like, born-again Christian, you you pray, you really do hope, like, Lord, like, I like impact my family, like save my family, but you don't really understand or comprehend the outcome. And when Jesus says, like, I have plans for you that you can't even like imagine.

Like plans to prosper you and give you hope for a future. So when I was praying this the simple prayer of like Lord like save my mom I didn't know like the outcome of my mom's yes to Jesus would be like her health getting better, her personality totally shift from like loving to gossip to like now being like you know let me speak life into this person like and then like her first instinct being prayer. Her first instinct being prayer because someone said this some some person some wise woman of God she was like Um, gossip is actually like the instinct that you actually want to pray for them, but you don't know how to pray for them, so you just instantly go to gossip.

So gossip is a form of like, you know what, you're actually meant to intercede for that person. And so say my mom like completely transformed 180. There's like Total like when when God talks about like the health of his flock, like everything about you spiritually, your mind, your heart, your soul changes.

So and I saw that in my mom and that's how I knew I'm like Jesus thank you. It wasn't like like God does work in an instant but I think he really showed the process of healing. Like it did take a couple years, you know, to look to grow.

But um the Lord says look overnight. Nothing goes overnight. It's time.

But like the Lord did answer that prayer and complete 180. It was just I gotta first remind me of the verse like Galatians 6. 9, do not be weary of doing what is good, because in due time you'll reap the reap a harvest if you do not give up.

And if there's anything we can encourage anyone who's in the same situation is do not give up because even when you feel like it's not possible or it's it's unattainable we were like completely mind blown with how it impacted our family in different ways. Wow. Not just with our mom, but then how it like trickled into our dad and our brother.

And now finding a church community and serving our local church. So Do not give up, do not grow weary 'cause the harvest is like ripe and it's ready and it's there. Is it not like it's there?

Cristina:
Well yeah. The blessings, you know, that you live every day. You know, and I always my my question is, what would Jesus do in this situation, right?

When when you are caught in like in a cross road and the you always think of him, right? Would he help this person? Will he gossip about this person?

Right?

Jade and Amber:
Or not? I remember like going from my perspective, it was like When you look at your parent you think like, oh, there's not really much you can do. Like they're so much older than you.

You have the two parents. They're the parent. Like, you know, you don't really think like, oh gossiping is just what we grew up with.

It's like it's our culture. It's like, you know, it's something that we do. You never really look at it and this didn't happen until I read the Bible.

Like Like when I actually started like getting to the word and I was like so in love, like that spiritual fervor. The first time you're reading your scripture and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe I had a taste for that. Like that and that gossip and this other things in my life.

You start to have like this taste aversion. And I remember just like telling my mom, like of you know, you're fifteen and like you you you're you don't know how to really approach it, but you know, sometimes it was like straight up like calling my mom out. But it really is what the work of the Lord did.

Like it took time. Like I it really had to know that like okay this is something that the Lord has to do himself. Like I can preach and I can and call my mom out, but like we were really planting seeds at that moment.

I knew deep down like okay My prayer was, Lord, like please reach my mom in ways that I know I can't reach. That only the Lord can.

Lisa:
And we can't change a heart. Only God can change a heart. No one can change my heart. Right. You can only touch my heart

Jade and Amber:
And I was just like, you know, I was just planting seeds at that time. But I can truly say like having your mom come to the Lord. Like my mom she she knew Jesus.

Like, you know the the trend of like no oh Jesus but then no Jesus. Like it's it's completely different. And it does change like my walk as a Christian because having my mom on board, like it it really like if she didn't really have a relationship with Gizela on her own.

We would have never went to the retreat. That Hats Life had She was talking about that right. And from there like I've met like friends who are like lifetime friends.

Lisa:
And around the world. And around the world. Also followers of Jesus.

Yeah, also now guys. I would have only stopped. But I have a very serious philosophical question Yeah.

If you're talking with your twin, is that gossip? No, just Just pulled you out here.

Jade and Amber:
It's just uh the I don't know, I've seen those jokes where it's like your mom gossiping in the form of a prayer request.

Lisa:
Right. But we do need to be careful with things like that 'cause are we really uh like we can pray but uh we don't have to let it you know Let other people stuff. That you know, the Bible even talks about like a tasty morsel.

Jade and Amber:
Yeah.

Lisa:
And uh you know, we need to be careful about sharing those tasty morsels in life. But Yeah. Wow. Any other thoughts of like so you were praying for your mom, you said your parents, you're I you know, you're together and COVID in your apartment and all, but uh So then she begins to listen a little bit.

Jade and Amber:
And so I think honestly for anyone who is in the same situation as we were, like where you start off with this like love for the Lord and you want to share it with your parents and it feels like overwhelmingly. I think honestly like and they don't know no at the relationship. I think creating space for those conversations.

Like a lot of our conversation like transformative conversations that we've had were at the dinner table It's like the only time we could really come together. Um, the dinner table we we just talk about like what we learn from the like honesty it would just be me and Jade sometimes and we'll just talk it about it in a way where they're overhearing. They really had towards me to listen So like just a curio sparking curiosity.

Your mom mentioned that at that dinner that was significant to her dinner. It was like honestly the only time and I feel like I'm so grateful for her. Something as simple as eating together.

Like how Jesus was in his ministry, like exanning. It's just it's it's so it I think that's like the first step I f I encourage people, like Get a meal, like make coffee, like create the time. And for me personally, it's like asking the Lord, even in myself, like in my my journey with the Lord, is like Healing those wounds of like bitterness and we're talking about this earlier, like pettiness is out of fruit of the spirit.

Do not be petty when we're having like when it's not reaching. Or it's not communicating. If I'm not finding the right words, maybe I should evaluate myself and realize, you know what, maybe the calling out is not exactly what I need to do.

And I can um too. Yeah, growing at that point too. Exactly.

Right. We're so young when we started, fifteen. There's so much that I learned along the way.

Um and I I think of um Like just being the tree that bears a fruit, like just by your actions, you can tell if you look at that tree it's bearing good fruit and uh, you know, uh just by the way that I I I conduct my speech, like, you know, like the the mouse speaks what the heart is full of. So make me sure that my root is still in Jesus and it's not in anything else. that can cloud it, you know, that I'm speaking from a place of love and first revenue with the hair.

So wow. That is part like the knowing when to really like, okay, girl, like how can I really speak what I want to share, like without it coming like a judging thing. And when can I stop speaking?

Well like how should I be silent to because you know, um fools are quick to speak and not quick to listen. So That I do take a moment of pausing and hearing what my mom has to say. Like it does take that reflection throughout the process.

Lisa:
Any other final thoughts for someone who's like, I really want my mom or dad to know Jesus the way I do? Anything you would share? Wow. Oh my gosh.

Jade and Amber:
I feel like we've talked about a lot of them.

Lisa:
And a and a a huge thing, you prayed together. Yeah. You were in God's word, you had conversations.

And I do love that because I do feel like the everyday conversations Jesus modeled that just like you said in the Bible. I always like looking at what did Jesus do? But in the busyness of life I think it takes more intention to sit down and have those conversations, the family dinners, the getting together with a friend for coffee or a meal and And I love that too.

That's why I told your mom this is like being in my house. I would have something on the table for you guys. You guys have a water too.

So but uh just because it is great to like sit and just have those conversations and about life and all the things. So I I'm just so thankful for you all. I'm thankful for you and just even choosing Jesus.

And in the middle and you guys being bold enough and not saying, We're the kid 'cause some parents do can come down like, Hey, I'm the parent, you know. And Like my parent told me, I'm gonna tell you, and then you're gonna tell the next generation and and is that really the way these relationships are supposed to be? I you know, so

Cristina:
But at least that's something that I I from a tyrant perspective, they were consistent. They were constantly like modeling. Like when they were talking and even the way of of presenting themselves with other s um friends, I saw a shift also of the of you know, th I also thought good congratulations but There was something special about that.

And having that consistency and that role model, I ended up, you know, applying those things. People at work started saying, you're different. Yeah.

Because my behavior even with my co-workers was different. Wow. So when I started hearing that I said, Lord, you you are molding me.

When teachers come to me and say, um, I need to talk to you after your name's going to take a two days out and be when they come to say Ms. V. Um my husband, I think he has a girlfriend. Like they come to like personal is a pleasure personal personal sway.

Lisa:
Trust me You're a safe space. A safe space. So they see some.

And can you imagine if you still work as the bing or something? Imagine what that's people don't. Right. Oh my god.

Cristina:
Once you gain that trust and and they see you. Yeah. And they trust you. It it made like my work environment even more like so um like familiar, like like family.

Lisa:
Yeah. And you've become a sp safe space to people that you didn't even have growing up, which is amazing. And then it kind of comes full circle back to your grandma was like she's going to know had that relationship with God someday and wow.

My father's gr that's just amazing. And I just friend, if you are wanting this relationship with Jesus Today I pray that you see how it uh knowing God through his son Jesus transforms lives. And He's changed my life been my anchor and the lives of young adult children, teenagers and parents and families and then it spreads on the coworkers and all.

And if you want that relationship you can talk with him right now and just talk about saying, God, I'm tired of going my way. I want to choose your way. And I want to get rid I'm sorry for that sin, that choosing my stuff and I want to have a relationship with you.

Will you clean me and come and live in my life? I want to follow you, Jesus. And I pray that peace for you and that freedom for you for you today, my friends.

So Thank you for joining us today, and I hope you join us next time on Thrive in the Mess.