"I Created a Monster with my Lifestyle” - From the Streets to Hope: Justin’s Story

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. So hey friend, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

I'm really excited to have a special guest today. His Name is Justin, and we're gonna jump in and hear his story. And Justin, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

I'm really glad you're here with us today.

Justin:
Thank you. Glad to be here as well.

Lisa:
Thanks for having us. Uh, well, I know your wife and met her years ago, and I have wanted to know more about your story, so So we're sitting down today. I'm ready with my coffee and I'm excited to just kind of hear some of your story in life. And I don't know where you want to jump in. You want to Jump in wherever you want as a child or sure.

Justin:
Um I mean I can just start and you can ask questions. Um I don't like to blabber for too long, so I'll I'll probably blabber.

Lisa:
The more messy we are, that's great. We're thriving the mess.

Justin:
So yeah, I I was I was born and uh raised in Denver, Colorado, uh northeast Denver, and uh So growing up out there um in Denver, I was born in the in the mid eighties and so in the early nineties. Um gangs from LA had uh just started to infiltrate Denver. Um so a lot of times uh a lot of the gangsters that were in Los Angeles, you know, if they got into trouble out there, they oftentimes would come to uh Denver.

In the early nineties, my neighborhood became one of the neighborhoods where a lot of gang members uh just decided to settle and um it was a predominantly black community back then um in the nineties and so Uh with that, you know, there's a lot of broken broken homes, a lot of uh families, dads not around. uh single single moms raising raising kids and uh so that led to a lot of young men trying to find um identity, trying to find acceptance and um you know that usually in in a situation like that when there's gangs in a neighborhood where young men are looking for acceptance and identity, you just kind of naturally gravitate towards those gangs because they kinda promise you those things. And uh of course we know that those promises are are empty, but Um as a as a young man, you don't know that.

You just see these guys and you look up to them and and you want to do whatever you can to to uh impress them, right? And so that's kind of what what uh began to happen in in my neighborhood. And uh like I said, my mom, my parents divorced when I was four or five years old And um so my mom, you know, raising f uh four kids by herself, and then five kids, she took in my my cousin.

So

Lisa:
She raised five people. Where are you? Where are you in that?

Justin:
I'm right in the middle.

Lisa:
Oh, that's a middle child capital letters middle.

Justin:
Yeah. Too older and too younger. So so I I just uh developed the temper and always kinda felt like everyone was against me.

And so um the older or the younger. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, um, and and maybe that temper kinda helped me as a gang member, you know.

get into some animosity with people or whatever, but um but uh so so yeah my mom raising us by herself she had to work uh all day, every day, especially Monday through Friday. And so she didn't really know what we were doing at home. Um, so we were just running around the neighborhood, kinda doing doing whatever we wanted to, you know.

Kind of like uh it it says in in uh in the book of the Bible, uh every man did what was right in his own eyes. That was that was us growing up. So, um and and obviously without direction and especially without the direction of a father.

Um the things that we did were were pretty harmful to us, you know.

Lisa:
Um was your dad around at all in your life over the years or was he gone pretty much at age four or five?

Justin:
Um, so he uh I was in a pretty uh in in that regard, I was a lot more blessed than some of my other friends who didn't even know their dads 'cause my dad still lived in the same can the same neighborhood. And um and he all he came around all the time and I I to this day I still have a great relationship with him. And so um my mom would kind of use that. Uh she would say, if you keep acting up, I'm gonna send you to a stay with your dad, you know And so I kinda that that that kinda helped out a little bit when I was young, but the older I got um the s I think the streets and just that desire to please my peers and the older the older guys, um, that kinda took over and and I it wasn't you know, the threat of staying with dad didn't really Didn't bother me anymore.

Lisa:
So you're like you're in the middle, you uh there's some broken at home and you don't have maybe the daily influence of your dad around or and and your mom works so hard which so many moms are doing that single parents of trying to make ends meet, put food on the table and clothes on their children's backs. So you're I you you talked about identity and so where did that how did that um over the years as a child and then maybe you know, ten eleven, twelve like w how did things play out for you then with just kind of all that going on?

Justin:
Yeah, so um We had uh the oldest was a my oldest sister and then my and then I had a brother who was two years older than me And so I really looked up to him and um and we both kind of followed in my sister's steps and and she You know, she was lost and broken. And uh a lot of times I would come home from school, you know, fourth, fourth or fifth grade, come home from school, I'm nine or ten years old, my sister's She's five years older than me so so she's about fifteen years old. And uh and I'd come home and there would be like ten or twelve like gang members just in the living room just hanging out, you know, the house full of smoke because, you know, they're smoking weed and pistols on the table and uh and they would when I would walk in the house they would they would uh offer me to smoke the weed and drink the gin or whatever they were drinking.

And so um I would I would do those things when I was in elementary school, you know, smoke weed, drink hard alcohol, and um just my my identity was I I would say well I didn't have an identity obviously. I had one but I didn't know it, right? And so uh when you're in those kind of settings, you you're you're gonna you're willing to do whatever it takes to to find acceptance and that's why a lot of times Um in some gang situations they'll they'll initiate a guy by telling him, Hey, if you go and go and rob this person or or or go and shoot this person then you'll be part of this.

You'll be you'll you'll be respected. And young guys with no identity will do anything to to gain that acceptance. Um Luckily I never went to that I never went that that low, but um the the drinking, the smoking, the um I started toting the pistol around at a young age when I was ten years old.

Uh didn't know what I was doing, but just wanted to to be tough, right? And so the older guys You know, they would tell my sister, Hey, we like your little brother. Like we wanna we wanna put him on.

We wanna put him on on to be we wanna make him part of this gang. And so that made me feel They made me feel good, right?

Lisa:
Like, yeah, that's that's what I want.

Justin:
Yeah, they like me, I'm being accepted. But um but it's obvious it's just obviously corrupt and um You don't see that when you're blind to it. So um Yeah.

Lisa:
You're looking for that acceptance of uh validate me You know, make me feel special, make me feel valued. So makes total sense. And that that was kind of the normal like I you know, you'd come home and that was the normal.

You would have that going on at home and all. So go ahead, keep going. This thanks for sharing all this.

Justin:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So and then when I got to you know that that played out uh through middle school uh elementary, middle school. And then when I when I got to high school, um high school was um full of different cliques or gangs or whatever you want to call it.

Um and so my when I was a freshman, my friends and I wanted to join uh the another clique with some older guys because we looked up to them and they told us you guys should start you you guys start your own clique 'cause that's what that's what everyone did, right? There was just so many different cliques and uh the police the in in the eyes of the police department, we were gangs. They we just thought we were cliques, but uh I remember um being pulled over, being questioned by cops once and and uh that and and noticing that they had our click uh in the gang unit And and it's like they have us in a game unit and they're like, Yeah, you're not.

Lisa:
You you viewed it as like your group Right. But the wow.

Justin:
You're selling drugs, just doing all and for some reason I think we just didn't see it as that. But the cops they didn't care about all that. They just looked at There's a group of guys that are breaking the law and they have a name and so they put us in the gang unit.

And so um so in high school it started to kind of escalate more and more. Um you know there's you know uh you develop a click you start to grow you start to become more popular um You and with that, the other cliques, they don't like that either because they're they're older than us, like the guys that were a little bit older than us were like, hey, you you we run this, you know? And we're like, they're like, well, we're running this now.

So then the animosity starts and you start having some pretty intense uh rivalries and and and fighting starts and um and that just Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's no, that's exactly right.

Because you bec now you become like a kind of like a target, right? Um you're because these other guys have been around already and they already kind of have their respect and and you're you're kind of starting to be a threat to to their notoriety and and so they don't like that. They're they're gonna try to say, hey, like we We run this.

Lisa:
Right, right.

Justin:
And so um with that, uh by the time I had graduated high school, I could easily name ten guys uh from our neighborhood that have been shot and killed. Um and so the a and I and I have and I've went Yeah, that I've that I've grown up with or that that lived in my neighborhood that I knew that I saw regularly. Um some of 'em were were were closer friends than others, but but I definitely bumped shoulders with all of them. Um and and so that yeah, that just that animosity just it it just it doesn't it doesn't go away, it just grows and grows and grows.

Lisa:
Wow, that's a good way to put that of it doesn't I I wondered how did that make you feel? That's a lot of loss at a young age and and Uh do you uh the animosity grows towards just the world in general, or n how does that play out then?

Justin:
Right. So I would say um the animosity uh w when you when you have no direction and you're walking down a path you you just get more and more lost, right? If you have no you don't know where you're going.

And so with with with gangs, um, if they're they don't like each other, that that uh that intense um disunity or discord, whatever you want to call it, uh that even hatred that you feel towards the other guys that that only intensifies um until somebody says, hey, we're taking these guys off the earth, right? Like and and that's what starts to happen. Or um Or, you know, a lot of guys that I knew were were were selling drugs hardcore and uh so I I I know I know a few that were shot and killed because they were out out on the blocks uh selling drugs like on someone someone else's territory.

Um had a brother a fr friend of mine whose brother, like a close friend of mine, one of my closest friends growing up his brother uh got shot and killed uh selling drugs on on someone else's territory. So there's that kind of stuff that happens. Um It's just like I said, a bunch of people who don't have direction um walking down walking down their own path.

and uh doing whatever it takes to gain respect because respect is like that's kinda like all you have, right? You're you're gonna do whatever it takes to make sure that people respect you. Because in in neighborhoods like that, that's that's really all you got, right?

Is is your reputation

Lisa:
Do you think a lot of people who I I know this is your story, but now your story led you to did you feel accepted? Like what uh uh was there a a battle of different thoughts in you, like, okay, I have animosity towards people, but this is my family. Did you view it as like a family? They give me purpose and meaning and respect. like you mentioned, uh what's going on inside of you, you know, with all of this?

Justin:
Yeah, yeah. So um I would say for me it was, you know, when you when you do something and you notice that other guys respect you for it, that actually makes you feel um Like your like your life means something, right? Um I had a reput yeah, purpose, yeah, exactly.

It gives you uh it gives you a false sense of purpose. And um I had a reputation because um I was always really athletic. Um as you probably know, I I played football and uh in high school and college, um after I got my life straightened out and everything.

But um and so I was always really strong physically and so um when it came to like fighting, you know, I I was known for for being being good at fighting. And so I I would go places not even in my neighborhood And people had heard about me. They they had heard that there's this guy in Montbello named uh my my street name back then was was Freddie.

This is This is so funny. My street name was Pow Wow. It had nothing to do with Native Americans.

We didn't even know anything about Native Americans.

Lisa:
Was it like Pow And wow, your your pow had a lot of wow? Is that where it came from or makes total sense now

Justin:
It it's just so funny that that and then I ended up marrying a Native American girl later on.

Lisa:
Right, right. Oh wow But um did people like keep their distance from you or were th were they like n I'm I can take 'em on or you know and that's pretty heady to think that you have that nickname, you know. Okay, I'm People are scared, you know.

Justin:
Yeah, exactly. They just knew like, yeah, you don't want to you don't want to mess with him in in fist fighting anyway, you know. Um And so uh that made me feel like, well, at least people know not to mess with me, you know?

Um so that that gives you a sense of of uh like you said purpose. But I I remember Um being in the basement at my mom's house, coming home late at night, looking at myself in the mirror, and And I always tell people that it was like I had created a monster with my lifestyle, right? And so it was almost like I had to do what I didn't even really wanna do in order to to keep that monster happy, right?

Wow. And that monster was inside of me. And so um I would look at my face in the mirror and and I would literally start to see my eyes.

I could see that that monster, I you know, which I believe was maybe some sort of demonic spirit that had that had come onto my life and and it was like I was I I knew that it was kind of scary, but I didn't know how to get rid of it

Lisa:
You were even scared looking. You scared people in the neighborhood and you were even scared looking at your own reflection. Right.

Justin:
Because I could see in my eyes just the that It's kinda kinda hard to explain, but it's almost like my face would kind of look distorted a little bit. Um and maybe I was just seeing the spiritual aspects of of what I had the the the person the spiritual person I had become, right? Just just kind of spiritually dead, right?

Just dead inside. And um but I didn't have an answer for it, so I would just Stop looking at the mirror. Yeah, turn away from the mirror because that that man in the mirror is kinda scaring me.

So I'm gonna stop looking at him and I'm just gonna go to bed. Well wake up and do it all over again Right, go partying 'til two in the morning. Uh my mom didn't know where I was at most nights.

She would she would sleep on the couch 'cause she kinda would be waiting for me to come home. But my brother He would oftentimes cause he was two years older than me, so he had a driver's license and he had a car because 'cause he was good at making money. um, whether legal or illegal, you know.

He would often be the one that I that would pick me up 'cause he had a uh he had a pager, right? So I would page him.

Lisa:
He would come and pick you up and so he knew some of what was going on.

Justin:
Oh yeah, he he was well aware.

Lisa:
He knew what was going on.

Justin:
Yeah, for sure. Because like I said, he he kinda lived the same lifestyle.

Lisa:
Yeah. And uh Okay.

Justin:
And he was He was also so he he his they called him powwow and then they called me little powwow and then when I got older they dropped the little powwow and just started calling me pow wow. So I got my nickname from him

Lisa:
Okay. Wow. So I I do have to say, little spoiler alert, you have three beautiful daughters now.

I'm not sure if they learn about your uh uh strength and fighting history. Your girls may never you may never have grandchildren. They may never get married.

The guy you'll scare the guys away Just saying, little spoiler there, but I can't help but think about that in the background.

Justin:
Because like I said, my mom was working so much that And uh my sister, she knew a lot of these a lot of these guys just from being around the neighborhood. Um and so I didn't actually officially join a a clique or a gang until my freshman year in high school when when the older guys at the high school told us like Hey, instead of joining ours, you guys should start your own. Because there was at the time there was about fifteen of us that were kind of running together and they're like, you guys already have your own thing. Just give it a name, you know, and so we came up with a name and yeah.

Lisa:
Yeah. Wow. So okay, all this is going on and and where are um what does this lead to?

Like we've talked about you know, that animosity towards people, you've had loss. Um what about like relationships? Were you able to Uh you know, when you're running around with your friends, are you like dating anybody?

You know? Like how do how do relationships play out into that?

Justin:
Yeah, that's I mean that's a good question. And really, um, you know, because of the rap music that we were all listening to back then, you know, it was basically you just mess around with as many young ladies as you can and uh oftentimes we would make fun of a guy if he if if it seemed like he was in love with a girl or if he was like too committed to one girl, you know, you kind of in in that setting, you kinda kind of lose a little bit of respect for that.

Lisa:
Um and so there were uh too committed.

Justin:
Yeah you couldn't be too committed because then they then guys would start call saying you're soft or you know, you're you're loving this female, you're more dedicated to her than you are to this clique type of stuff. And so it was really like you you're you're really kinda taught to just be a dog, really. You know what I mean?

And um to just view women as objects for for sex is really what it what it what it boiled down to. And so, um, I mean none of us were you know, none of us kept our virginity or anything like that. There was there that that was like not even a not even a thought, right?

And so, um, that's another part of that lifestyle is, you know, not only is there the violence and the the wild living, running the streets and all that, but there's also the the uh the womanizing aspect of it as well.

Lisa:
Coming back to your story, th I and i you know, it seems like some of the other stories everyone you're saying everyone is looking for that acceptance. Look trying to fill that need, fill that hole in their heart. And okay, so we've talked about like the the fighting part, we've talked about like the identity part some we're talking about the you know the relationship with women um is there any kind of um role model? Is there any kind of person in your world that gives any other different look at what life maybe could be?

Justin:
Right, right. Yeah, you know, we had a couple of uh because like I said, I I played football in middle school and high school and college Um so our football coaches were because all of the our f our football team was was made up of a bunch of different cliques. But we were all like really athletic, you know, 'cause usually in a in a black community, guys are just naturally gonna there's just a lot of athletic people, you know what I mean?

And so we were all athletic. If you're all on the same team and from different cliques, does that well we're going to just kinda had to we all we all had enough love for football 'cause we saw that as like the only way really to get out of the neighborhood uh for most of us, right? And so, um, we had enough for the game to to keep all that quiet while we're at football practice.

Right? Even though we were on the team with guys that we probably didn't really like. We didn't and our football coaches wouldn't you know, they were uh they were all um black men who knew how to knew how to whip young black boys into shape, right?

So they didn't put up with they didn't they wouldn't have put up with that So our our our head football coach, he was a NFL player when he was young. Oh and he played for the Denver Broncos. Um Louis Louis Wright was his name.

Um he's in the Broncos Ring of Fame Um, which means he's just one of the best Denver Broncos that ever played. And so um we respected him enough because we all wanted to to get where he was, right? Some of his assistant coaches that we really respected.

Um one of them uh caught me selling weed in the locker room. Because you could tell that I wasn't gonna confess, I would say I was more committed to the streets than I was to football And that's why I was able to lie to my coach because h in m in my eyes, you know the streets in that life were up here and football was down here.

Lisa:
Um would that have gotten you kicked off the team?

Justin:
He well he just looked at me and he said he said uh he was sitting down in his chair and I was standing up and he said He said, you used to be one of the most committed players on this team, but now you're just a big question mark. You know? And those words just they still ring in my chest, you know.

It was like the last day of school before Christmas break And I was gonna we were having a c a party in our chemistry class and um we all had to bring something so I said I'll bring Doritos So I go to the neighborhood corner store buy a big bag of Doritos that I'm gonna take it to my chemistry class. Well on my way while I'm walking to school Some of my homies meet me on the way and they say I'm they're like where are you going? I'm like I'm going to class with this I gotta take these chips, right?

And they're like They're like, nah man, we need you. We're about to go and fight these guys, right? And and it's uh the group of guys that we were gonna fight were other guys on the football team.

But football season is over at this point, so you know, we can kinda continue some of that beef that we had.

Lisa:
Put it to the side for a little bit and right Oh.

Justin:
Yeah, and something had transpired uh the a day or two before that, and and so they had all had a meeting while I wasn't there, I think early that morning. and they decided like we're going to the school and we're settling this right now. And so the when they saw me, they're like, Yeah, we need you.

Come help us And I'm like, But I bought these chips to take the class and and they're like, Well You're gonna have to miss class. And I'm like, all right, let's go. So just we all pile up in my friend's little car and we go to the uh go to the high school and and just the there was a huge brawl that breaks out between us and these guys and uh people still talk about it to this day.

Um

Lisa:
At the school.

Justin:
Yeah, at the at the high school in the parking lot.

Lisa:
Oh.

Justin:
Yeah, it's known as the brawl. Um and um and so We and and I would say we came out on top, right? We so we are we're celebrating, we go back to the house, one of my homies house, we're celebrating, drinking.

Eating the bag of the biggest. That night, you know, we've been partying all day. That night we were drunk.

We're w we have a stolen car. That was the other thing that I was doing. I was we were stealing cars too.

So I learned how to drive in stolen cars.

Lisa:
I'm glad you learned to drive. I'm not sure that that's the best way to learn. I'm not judging, just saying.

Justin:
Anyway, we're we're partying, we're we're in this stolen car, we get uh cops come, uh my friend who's driving the car jumps out of the car while it's driving, so we all jump out Um the cop had to jump in the car and park it because it was gonna hit a building. So um I'm the only one who gets caught and Yeah. And so uh because I was gonna jump we had all these fences in our neighborhood and I was gonna jump a fence but there was a snarling rottweiler Uh 'cause everyone in our hood has, you know, pit bulls, rottweilers, you know, mean dogs. No one has poodles.

Lisa:
No one has poodles. That's because people are named pow wow around there. They have to have rotwilers and pimples

Justin:
Right, right. Oh so um So I'm like either I jump this fence and get eaten by this Rottweiler and go to jail or I just jump off the fence and surrender So I jump off the fence, the guy takes me and uh and and I go to jail for the first time for being in a stolen car. And uh And so when I got out, the only the only thing so that was right before Christmas break when I got I got I only spent a couple days in jail because they didn't It was my first offense, right? And um I was a minor. I was only sixteen at the time.

Lisa:
Oh wow.

Justin:
And so when I get out of jail Um the only thing I get for Christmas that year is a Bible.

Lisa:
I thought you were gonna say coal. Sorry, I'm trending coal in your stocking for For for going to jail, sir. But you got a Bible. Who gave you the Bible? My mom.

Justin:
She she uh Yeah, she was kind of fed up with all of us that year and and she just uh me and my brother and um you know, we were just knuckleheads and she said, You guys don't deserve anything for Christmas this year. I got you guys these Bibles and that's all I'm getting you.

Lisa:
And uh well so I'm sure you were beyond thrilled to get a Bible. Like, wow, thanks, Mom.

Justin:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. So um that that was when things started to slowly kinda shift.

It didn't shift right away. I didn't steal any more cars because I I was like, I don't I don't wanna go back to jail, I know that. I slowly started to read it a little bit.

But uh March of that year, so this is all Christmas break, New Year's, March of that year, um and and I told you before that uh my mom, you know, she made that New Year's resolution that year to start taking us to church.

Lisa:
Which What a New Year's resolution. Oh my goodness.

Justin:
So she bought us Bibles and made it made that resolution to start taking us to church.

Lisa:
So did you go with her

Justin:
Yeah, I mean I had no choice. Uh she we one of the you know in the past whenever she would say hey we're randomly a couple times a year maybe she would say like hey we're going to church And we'd all be like, oh Why?

Lisa:
You know So you had no choice and yeah.

Justin:
Usually we'd all be like, Mom, we're tired. It's too early. But we we we lived right a we moved right across the street from a church and that church started at like twelve

Lisa:
You had no excuse.

Justin:
Yeah. She's like, even if you sleep in, you can still go. And I'm like, oh man.

So So we start going to church and I'm still running the streets, still living that life. Um in March of that year, uh There was a shoe a shooting at a house party that me and my friends were throwing. And uh and so um I saw someone I for the first time in my life I actually saw someone get shot and killed.

Um wow. And two two or three other people got shot that night too. One of them was a good friend of mine and so He's he's sitting there bleeding and I literally take off my shirt to try to stop the blood.

And that was the first time I had just seen how blood just can gush out of a person. So it it's unreal how how fast that happens. Um and you know, we're all freaking out 'cause the ambulance taking forever.

Um But so that that happened and um eventually, you know, I'm just looking at my life and It was I think that summer when I, you know, we're going to church every week leading up to all this, and that summer was when I finally just decided like I think I've had enough. You know? I think I'm I don't think I can live like this anymore, being just empty and lost and broken, confused and uh just feeling like I'm gonna blow someone's brains out or I'm gonna do something and someone's gonna blow my brains out or you know what I mean?

Just kinda living on the edge I just I I just had enough of it at that point. And so that's what really led to to the big life change where I started listening

Lisa:
Wow. And you said something at one point that when your mom took you to church, um, you were amaz you heard that God loved you.

Justin:
Yeah.

Lisa:
How did that impact you?

Justin:
Yeah, so that that impacted me tremendously because my friends and I we would sit around smoking weed and saying, you know, do do you think you think God would ever you think God would ever love people like us? It's like, nah man. If there is a God he he don't like peop he don't he ain't trying to deal with people like us man We're we're just lost out here in the hood.

And um but I went to church and my the pastor, it was a communion Sunday, he was talking about how uh when Jesus died on the cross that he actually died for people who didn't know him, who didn't who It didn't matter what your background was, that he actually died for all of us, not just for people who were in church. And so the thought that that he actually he died for our sins, right? And and that that just for the first time that that made sense to me, like, oh wow.

So he all the bad stuff that I've been doing, like he died for that, to to forgive me of that, and uh, and even to to cleanse my heart of that, right? And and that just for the first time then I actually wept in church. Like that hit my heart.

And my mom looked over at me and I'm crying. She's like Like it this must be a miracle.

Lisa:
Wow, right. All because of her New Year's resolution to go to church.

Justin:
She stayed faithful to it. You know, it wasn't just like a two-week resolution. She She stayed faithful to it.

Lisa:
It seems like something changed in your heart. Can you tell us more about that?

Justin:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean I I just I realized that um w the life that I was living, that was not who I was. that uh I was that God had something better for me and um that I was living in a false identity.

Um And that through Christ I could find my true self. Right. It talks about that in the Bible in Colossians 3, that your true life is with Christ in God.

And so Um that all made sense and I was just like, man, why didn't I know this before? I remember thinking like, why didn't I know this? You know, I would have never been living like that.

But is I guess better late than never. And I was only seventeen at the time because I I had turned seventeen um in May of that year. And uh and that all transpired me having the the big turnaround.

That happened about in July of twenty twenty or uh two thousand one. So Um yeah, and I and I started reading that Bible that my mom bought me and just started reading it every day and um and then I I've been reading the Bible ever since, you know. And Wow.

Yeah.

Lisa:
I would say that

Justin:
Yeah, go ahead. Oh I was gonna say I would say that's been the biggest change. Like going to church has been awesome, but the biggest change is is just reading it for yourself and and seeing the words of Christ and seeing the whole message and God's story and and the way he feels about us as p as people, seeing that on the pages yourself and making it become you know, taking ownership of that. Like this is how he feels about me You know, that I would say that's what has caused the most change in my life.

Lisa:
Wow, and where so where do you see change in your life? Do you I one thing I want to touch on is just even the identity. You were looking for identity and you touched on some of that of um where it talks about identity in in the Bible, you know, of God making us and I we're so valuable with him, one of a kind. But um what are some other things that where you see that change?

Justin:
Right, right. So um I mean when you when you realize that God is your father and he's the one who gives you value and acceptance, then You don't strive so hard to get that from people. And so July of that year I give my life to I actually go forward at church for an altar call to to accept Christ.

Um Then uh November of that year, I'm just hanging out reading my Bible one night and the Lord speaks to me pretty clearly in my heart and says, When you go to school tomorrow I want you to tell your friends that you're done. Because you know, I was still in the game all the all the way through all this. And uh and I kind of knew like Were you scared Not really because I've actually felt God's presence, you know what I mean?

Like you you felt that like when you feel his presence like it's more real than anything else in this world. And so that's why people in other countries and people in the past in history have been willing to die for their faith because they feel the presence of God and they know that that's more real than anything in in this world. And so When he told me that, I I went and told my friends the next day and I had no fear.

I said, I'm done. And and uh They were just like really like okay okay and then um then of course we had different conversations about it uh because uh you know when I when I first made the decision I w I started to talk to them about it like started to talk about Jesus to them and they and they just were like man like we ain't with that Jesus stuff man you know like What are you gonna do? Stop sleeping around, stop messing with females, stop doing this, stop doing that.

Like what is your life gonna look like? That's they just were looking at all the things that I was gonna not be able to do. Right.

They didn't understand the th the the uh privileges that come with being a child of God, right? And so and they didn't really want to hear it at the time. And so

Lisa:
Did you ever get to tell them like, you know, you guys would sit around smoking weed and say, nah, God would never love us. No, he doesn't care about us. Did you ever get to like tell them hey he does care about it?

Justin:
You know, because I I was still smoking weed all the way up to uh uh you know, all the way till about November of that year. And so one of my friends was kinda on that journey too. He was he started to go to church with me and uh we were still gangbanging together, but still but but kind of searching out this Jesus thing.

And uh You remember the Jesus film that used to Yeah, so we back then that was a famous thing. So we would We would sit it would come on TV back then. And so me and him would sit down and watch the Jesus film and smoke weed while we're watching it.

I don't suggest people do that By the way. That I'm not saying do that. That was just we had we were still trying to figure this all out.

Lisa:
You know what? I but you're you're still you're seeking for that hope and truth at that moment. So wow.

Justin:
And we just we they did a good job portraying Jesus on that film, even though it was kinda old and um and so we we thought like, wow, Jesus is He's awesome, you know, and um and so there's an example of a real man. Yeah, not afraid of not afraid to say who he was and Right. You know, he didn't he yeah, he just didn't bow down.

And so um same kind of attitude I had to have when when I told my friends that I was done being a part of the gang. And uh And like I said, w I I didn't really to me it didn't matter if they accepted it or not, I just knew that it was what I had to do. Um I didn't even care.

Yeah, it was the next step. Yeah, exactly.

Lisa:
Fast forward a little bit, you have all that going on. Um you met someone else at one point. And a nice girl. And uh how did you guys meet?

Justin:
Yeah, we met um in our campus ministry. We uh she I'm three years older than her, so I was already part of the ministry. And then she came to college my third year, my fourth year was her freshman year.

And she was part of it, she became a part of the ministry. And she was just um I just saw that she had a passion and a she was on fire for God and I I really liked that. And I and of course I thought she was beautiful.

So good combination and uh did you ever think you would even get married because of like that's something

Lisa:
uh that you know I the Bible talks about our minds are transformed by uh like uh e how we view ourselves, how we view other people people and uh what the world uh you know sometimes the world can be it it's pretty broken and so we view ourselves broken. We view other people differently and then God can change how we see ourselves and how we see other people. So all that to say you were kind of treating women differently as a teenager, before you had God you know, where Jesus entered your life, did you think you'd get married? Did that change of how you viewed women and that whole area?

Justin:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it changes a lot. I mean when I when I started uh following Jesus and reading the Bible and going to church, um I I at that point I was like, you know, I knew that I wanted a family. I mean, even back when I was doing all the crazy stuff, I think when I was a young kid, I thought I knew that I wanted a family, but when I was just lost in the gang environment and this the street life, I think I kind of put that on the shelf because You don't you're looking at your life and you're like, I'm not the type of person that is gonna be a good father, right?

So you kind of put that on a shelf. That's what I did. But when I got w when I be when I got saved and started following Jesus and all that, um, that kinda that whole idea of being a dad and wanting a wife and kids, that came th that came strong.

And so um you know I wouldn't say that I was out just looking for a woman to marry, but I knew that the next woman that I would really fall in love with or whatever, like, I'm doing this for marriage, not just to have 'Cause I I wanted to remain pure, you know, sexually pure and so I was like, if we're gonna if I'm gonna be with a woman, it's gonna be going towards marriage, right? But I got to know her and realized that like I really liked her and really started to fall in love with her. I I yeah, I knew that I wanted to start a family with her And uh and that's that's kind of what what happened.

Lisa:
God really can change change how we view everything when we uh we And I love how it took knowing that God loves you, that Jesus offers a relationship with God. And that that changed your whole life. It really does turn our world upside down for the better. And And so I and now you all have you did get married, you have three beautiful daughters, and how is it being a dad? You didn't have your dad completely hands on, you know, broken home at a young age. Um how'd how does that play out

Justin:
Yeah. Um you know what was awesome was that I had a couple men in my life that that kind of stepped in as role models. Um That this was after I had already given my life to the Lord and started doing that.

Um the youth pastor at the church and then another guy at the church Um I really looked up to them and they started, you know, taking me out to eat and just getting to know me and um and I just started watching their lives and how they lived life. And so And they were the kind of they I was like th they're the kind of men that I want to be like. And so um that I feel like that was God's way of kind of redeeming that area of my life of not of not having a godly man in the house to show me what it meant to you know what I mean?

To be a godly husband and father And so spending a lot of time with with them really kind of shaped helped shape my mind and um get me to see what a what a godly man uh husband and father is like. And so I just kind of in their footsteps.

Lisa:
I I wondered about that part too, the husband part, because you didn't see that play out in in your home and then being on the streets You didn't see that. And but you all have been married you know a while now and I'm just so thrilled. Sixteen years.

Did you ever think like You know, honestly, Justin, you were on the streets. You saw a friend uh you know, a friend lose their life and You could have, you know, you could have landed in prison afore I you know, if things And I see but God just and but you were open to that. You know, you were kind of at the end.

Sometimes I I I see it feels like we have to get to the end of me like the end of us and you kinda did with what with what you shared and I what would you tell someone who's um, where you were at, whether they're on the streets or at a point in life where they're trying to find their identity somewhere else. And what would you tell them if they're like, um, God is not for me? You know, I and and what you said even of no God I I uh God couldn't love me.

God couldn't love us.

Justin:
I would just say God hears your heart, you know, and um I would say just throw a prayer out there. Throw a prayer up there and just say God if you're real Then please show yourself to me and um and just ask him to show to reveal himself because he loves to do that. And it might not be the way you expect, but in one way or another, he's going to show himself to to you if you if you really want to know, right?

And and if you're just lost and hopeless, uh whether you feel it or not, there is hope in God. God actually, Jesus came when he was born as a baby People rejoiced because they knew that he was God's answer to the brokenness in the world. When you think about the the three wise men, right?

They they walked, I think, seven or eight hundred miles. to see this baby that was born because they knew that he was God's answer to the brokenness in society. And so Um, I would say if if three wise men would walk 700 miles to see this hope that is has been promised, then the least you can do is just throw up a prayer and say, God If Jesus is really the way, then help me to see that.

If you're real, help me to know that. I'm lost. I need direction if that if what I need is you then please show me.

Um I guarantee you God will will he'll show you if your heart is open. If you keep your heart open and tender, you you will you will find him. Promise.

That's a promise.

Lisa:
Wow. And uh you know, being on the streets, your heart wasn't real tender. You were pow wow, the guy beating up people. You know I but somehow it just it hit you.

Justin:
Right.

Lisa:
At at that point.

Justin:
Right, and we all like you mentioned it earlier, we all have that that that God-sized like area, that whole like a hole in our heart that only God can fill. and there's nothing in this world that can fill that void. You can try whatever you want.

There's people out there who have more money than we can dream of, but they're miserable still because they haven't filled that God-sized vacuum in their heart. And so there's nothing in this world that will that will satisfy a um a a lost soul. Only Jesus can do that And um and I can promise you that um if you if you seek him, you will find him.

Like the Bible says, if you seek me, you will find me, if you search for me with all your heart. So that's God's invitation to humanity, right? Search for him with all your heart and you will find him.

Lisa:
Wow. And Justin, uh do you ever sit back and just think You know, I was on the streets, life could have been so different, and but God. Like do you ever just sit there and just like, oh my goodness, you know

Justin:
Oh yeah, I mean a lot of times when when I'm in church, I I cry thinking about that. Um I don't know if you ever heard that if you heard that song Come Away With Me. And when I listen to that song, I I remember that lost 16 year old that I talked told you about looking at my face in the mirror and I it's like it's like I go back to that that moment and I it's like It's like, oh, while I was looking at myself in the mirror, I didn't hear him.

He was calling me saying, come away with me. I have something more for you. You're lost, you're broken, come away with me.

I have something better. Um and eventually I ended up hearing that voice and um So yeah, I I think about oftentimes um w how my life could have ended up, uh could have been dead in jail. Could have had baby mama drama, you know.

Lisa:
Right, right. I eaten by a rottweiler when you were trying to run away from getting arrested. Oh my goodness.

Wow. You know, Justin, I am just I I'm blown away hearing your story of um uh you know what life was. My heart goes out to the the young boy who was looking for hope.

you know, looking for that identity and just uh where you ended up and and things could be so different, you know. And I'm just so thankful that that your life is what it is now and married and three n children and just life and I I know you love encouraging people to give Jesus a chance and the hope that he's given you.

Justin:
Like the Bible says if you if you seek God with all your heart you will find him. And that means seek and don't give up after two weeks or three weeks or don't give up because it doesn't work out right away. Seek him until something changes in your life.

And uh and and God will he will answer you. That that is what God does. He he he the Bible says that he is near to the brokenhearted Right?

It says if you call on the name of the Lord, you will be saved. These are are delivered. Delivered from what?

In my case, it was delivered from being in that lost situation I was in. being being in that being safe delivered from that monster that I had created, right? That I was like living for.

Delivered from whatever you need to be set free from fear, uh, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, whatever. Um He God will answer you, and that's a promise. So um I don't I I can't say it anything.

There's nothing else I can really add to that

Lisa:
That's pretty powerful right there though. Uh well Justin, I just thank you for sharing your story and your hope. And friend, thank you for joining us on Thrive in the Mess. I hope you're leaving. encourage just seeing the power of God in someone's life that could be so different and that that he o God offers to every single one of us to change our the way we think, the way we see ourselves. the way we see others and friend I hope next time you'll join us on Thrive in the Mess