Finding Hope After a Breast Cancer Diagnosis - Nancy's Journey

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. Hey, welcome to Thrive in the Mess and I am really thrilled to have a long time Friend who's known me since I was little, Nancy, my friend Nancy. And today we're going to jump into another mess that occurs with actually We were just talking about three and twenty-five women uh dealing with the issue of cancer.

Nancy:
Yeah, that's right. Three and twenty-five or one and eight.

Lisa:
And dealing with uh when you get the news that you have breast cancer. And so I'm really thrilled to have Nancy here. Give us a little background.

So you are um married, you have children, you have a family. And then life is going along, you're working, you're very good at what you do, and then you get a diagnosis. You can jump in at any point and any of that.

Nancy:
It's kind of different than that. So um just a a a little bit of background. When I in twenty eleven I had a kidney stone that lodged into my kidney.

Lisa:
Oh.

Nancy:
And I became very ill and I had sepsis. So I was down that was a real mess. On February eighth of twenty four, I went I go to bed late.

It's a thing I do. Me too. Okay.

I went to bed at two A. M. , fell asleep, and then at three fifteen I woke up And I felt very, very sick. Oh. I got up, I went in the bathroom, I thought I was going to toss my cookies.

And then I could feel a sensation in my back. And that was the middle of the night. My whole house was asleep.

And I thought, I have to get to the hospital now. So I got my keys, I hopped in the car and by like 3 35 I was at the hospital. This is such a mom thing to just take off.

Yeah. No, wait It does I know. Well, because they would have slowed me down.

Right, right. So I thought I have to get there right now. 'Cause I knew what would happen to me when now The hospital was like ten minutes from my house.

It's not like I'm driving down the highway or something. And I got there and they put me on morphine immediately because the pain is tremendous. And um they did a C T scan And I waited and I kind of slept after they gave me the medication that you know they and they um came to me later on and said, Yes, you have a stone So my analysis was correct.

And uh they said, But it's very tiny and we're gonna send you home, you'll pass it. So I went home Like around noon that same morning. And then the next morning I got a phone call and they said to me, We need you to come back.

I'm like, okay. They ran a blood culture that takes twenty-four hours for anything to show up. Mm.

And I actually had E. coli in my blood. Oh. So yeah.

And so I did a little research on that because uh what did where did I go? Where did I do you get that? And um It's somehow connected to the kidney stone that we all have E. coli in our bodies a lot of times.

I've heard that, yeah. Right. But it's certain things will make it um activate or whatever.

Yeah. And the kidney stone probably was related to it because it does attack your intestines and your kidney. Wow.

So then that was the most important thing that was going on with me. So I went down and they took me into a private room and I'm like, hmm. They told me about the E. coli that I would have to be in for uh several days until my blood levels evened out.

But there was something else. So that's how I found out. They said on your CT scan, we saw something in both your breasts and one ovary.

And I was like, okay Wow. Yeah. But w I did nothing about it because I was in the hospital for four days.

Right. They put a a PIC line in my arm so that I could get ten days of antibiotic infusions and so I just focus. Even after you were out of the hospital.

Yes. I got they let me out. Yeah.

Let me out. And uh for ten days I would drive down to the hospital, I'd sit in a chair for an hour and they would put this bag of some kind of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And then I had to follow up with the hematologist oncologist because they thought there was something really wrong with me.

Well, there was, but only from the blood.

Lisa:
They're coming out of one direction, but you had to start having other directions looked at.

Nancy:
Yeah, well they made me promise I would follow up with a gynaecologist because they didn't know what it was So that's where the adventure began.

Lisa:
Wow. And it seemed like it started like it's like God woke you up. In the middle of the night. Oh. I d uh for pain to be able to get to a place with something else to diagnose something else.

Nancy:
Or if there were people who um press charges like charges against medically negligent people, I would have been arrested because The last time I had a mammogram, I swore I would never do it again. And I was about, yeah, I know. Stay listen to me.

I was uh I think 42 or 43. It was such a bad experience That I said I will never do it again. And I mean had a reason, or I thought I did.

Right, right. Um, I don't have a single indicator that I would ever get cancer. It was less than two percent.

Oh wow There's no incidence of cancer in my family. There's a whole bunch of things you could look it up, but like if you have a baby If you get pregnant before you turn thirty, which I did, if you nurse your babies, these things are to your benefit. Right.

That you don't drink um alcohol, which I had my last drink when I was seventeen. Yeah. And that's a whole nother story.

Yeah, it is. We'll touch on that, but maybe we can maybe we can. Um, and uh family history.

uh genetic mutation like all of those things. Um there's like about ten things. I had none of it.

Right. And I don't even eat meat. I don't really eat too much processed food.

Like all those things are indicators. And you're like why? me because um I have all these other things I've done.

Lisa:
That was the why I didn't do a good job with annual The mammograms.

Nancy:
The mammograms or however often you should get one. Right. Um I just Um I didn't think it was important. Yeah. Well, so was it like God woke me up Oh yeah.

Lisa:
Wow.

Nancy:
And I only can attribute it to that. I know I would never have gone for a mammogram.

Lisa:
Right.

Nancy:
And it was in me. It was probably in me for years, they said. Really?

But it's a very um It's very hidden. You would think and these are the things that surprise me I never felt anything. I went to my doctor to get the script to go get a mammogram, because you can't just walk in and get one.

And um he said to me that uh Nobody has breast cancer diagnosed from a CT scan. He said it could just be a anomaly or something weird about your scan. First of all, they were scanning my Kidney.

Lisa:
They were looking here, but you wonder did they just happen to get more in that angle or something?

Nancy:
Well, we'll fast forward to that in a minute because um well I'll do it real quick here I eventually was sent to um my breast surgeon. So I did have several surgeries, but um she told me that there was an angel who put their finger on that CT scan because there's no reason for them to have ever even seen it. So and there's a whole story about her too, but circling back You're like, Well I believe in God.

Lisa:
Yeah, yeah.

Nancy:
Oh yes, so I'm yes okay So I um uh I just know and I I did tell 'em, you know, I was medically negligent. I didn't go because I didn't think I had to. So I think It's really important to understand that nobody's exempt.

My healthy living, my not being a candidate, my doctor told me that 30% of all new cancers There's no history. Wow. So thirty percent that's a high number.

Right. And it's more and more. It used to be like one in ten women.

Now it's one in eight. We don't know where it's going. Right.

But Um I should have been better about going.

Lisa:
I've never heard that. I d uh that's very insightful that medically negligent, not as a doctor, but us. Me.

Us doing some of those things and intentionally working on different things. Like I know there are things I'm working on healthier and just you think of those things and sometimes those tests and things are not our favorite to go through. I don't think they're anyone's favorite.

Nancy:
Well listen, the j the joke was on me because from from the time that I went for the uh mammogram and I'll talk about that in a minute, to the time of my first surgery, I think I had like six of them. And one during an MRI, one lasted for 30 minutes of compression. Oh.

Yeah. Yeah. But you know what?

When when you're in the moment you you do you just do it.

Lisa:
Right.

Nancy:
Um so I went and I had the mammogram done And then all these people started walking in and out of the room and then they say, We need to get more images and they kept pulling me back. So another and another and another and that's a So there's something they're seeing. Right, but they don't tell you that.

Right, right. So um eventually then the doctor came in. I'm like, oh gee.

And um she said, listen, there's something there. You will have to have it surgically removed. But the first thing we'll do is a biopsy.

Okay. So two days later I was in getting a biopsy. So what they do for that is they take a needle and they put it Which is a mystery to me, they put it directly into the mass that they're seeing.

I'm like, aren't you punching a hole in it? Like, how does that even make sense? I don't know the answer.

Lisa:
Spread or I don't know either.

Nancy:
Written it out, right? Right, right. No. Springing it out, I know.

That's what it seems like it. It's like um Yeah, so They did that test. Somehow I have testing on weekends, right?

And they said it'll take a couple days. We'll get back to you So now so that the weekend wait, that's rough. All right.

Well, who waited? Not me. I signed it to my chart with the hospital.

The portal only. Yeah. And I said, well, there's probably something in there.

I'm gonna look So I go in a couple of times, nothing. So then very late at night, in the middle of the night, I thought, let me try one more time because I knew that I should be hearing. And sure enough, there were my test results.

So I'm like, ha So I go in and I click on it and it's big bold lettering and it said 98% malignant. And I'm looking at like In the middle of the night. I'm thinking, should I really have read this right now?

But I'll tell you what, I know enough about me to know that I would probably do everything the same because that's just me.

Lisa:
Right. Um if those patient portals are great, but it's kind of getting news to people that used to just be in that personal one on one There's a warning.

Nancy:
Can be like you know. There is a warning. These results may not have been seen by your doctor.

Oh yeah, she does say that, which to me is like go for it. You're like being uh Yeah, yeah. But that was really strange.

Well the next day

Lisa:
my gynecologist how did you uh real quick, how did you respond to that? Like I'm assuming the rest of your house is asleep at that moment. Did you wake anybody up? And tell them you're just like are you like How about that? It was I like what are you thinking?

Nancy:
What are you I Oh the only thing I was really thinking was should I have done that?

Lisa:
Yeah.

Nancy:
Because I didn't know what it was. Well and then it has a name It's called D C I S.

Lisa:
Okay.

Nancy:
It's a ductal carcinoma in situ. That means it's within itself. So the in my mind I could only think of it like um a liquid advil.

Oh. Inside your body. Oh.

It's encased in a DCIS, it's encased in itself. Okay. Which means it hasn't gone out to any other area of your body.

can be get got no that's basically so right. So I went, you know, Google and I checked it out and I thought, well, doesn't sound so awful. Right, right.

But um my reaction to things like that is not to panic until somebody tells me to. Right, right. That's just my nature.

And you hope you're not told to panic too. Yeah. Yeah.

Well my doctor called me the next day. I didn't even call him. I knew he would get the results.

Right. And he just said to me, Look, Nancy, don't be dramatic. Okay, like what are you saying?

Am I dramatic? I don't think so. And he told me, Don't get traumatic.

You're gonna be fine. I'm gonna get you in to see a good doctor. He said Don't start writing a will, don't do anything like that.

You're gonna be fine. So I just accepted that. Okay.

I didn't know it was on the road ahead of me, but I just assumed that I'd be fine. He said to me, I'm gonna get you appoint an appointment with uh I know who I'll send you to and I'm gonna have them call. Two days later I was sitting in her office.

She had all of my records and the test Right. Very fast. And she's like the chief of surgery in the breast center.

And she serves on all these boards. She was work with uh She did um a fellowship at Sloan Kettering in New York City. She was on the Good.

Just she's she's like a big name. Wow. She came in and I just

Lisa:
loved her well immediately.

Nancy:
We're about the same age and it she was just very calming and nice and she set me up with all these tests.

Lisa:
Can I ask you a question? So you uh you mentioned February and then all of this, but then I know your mom passed away at some point. Where is all of this in the middle of that? Timeline too. So learning all this right before your mom?

Nancy:
Right before she passed. This was happening as we were advised by the home that we need to come by more often. So I was kind of fitting it in.

My mother I never told her. I'm not sure she could have understood anyway. But I thought for what purpose would I tell her.

So I didn't but um yeah I had an MRI and then I got the result of that. She was still alive. We were going to see her kind of often.

It's about an hour from my house.

Lisa:
Is it when I went back the next day the stone was gone.

Nancy:
I didn't even know. I didn't even know that I've been.

Lisa:
to get you there for the other stuff.

Nancy:
Oh my goodness. So you know how some people feel God whispering to them? I got yelled at.

You're going. If you want to or not. And I uh I got my keys and well I went as fast as I could and it turns out that Without that kidney stone, I still would not have gone for a mammogram.

I know it. And so um I got the news and The news that I got from the MRI, that's the one where they squish you guided by a mammogram, so they know the exact location. Like they put little clips inside your body that that mark it so that when you have any kind of surgery or if they don't and they know where to watch me.

If I had done nothing, like in one year, two I probably probably had to hail every six months for a mammogram. Which by the way, let me just tell you. They're about your frequency up.

They're so much better than when I had that. I could do one every day. The equipment has changed, the way they process it.

So I was foolish m even more so because I had no idea. You know, I w I went to the one that I think Wilmaf Wilma Flintstone went to. You know, like teaching.

I don't know.

Lisa:
But that's what we do here. We're talking about things that people don't talk about usually. So So people know they're not alone and even not alone feeling like, well, that's an uncomfortable thing.

No. And not anymore. I yeah. So wow.

Okay, so this is a lot in the middle. Like you're getting all this incoming. And there's probably still more incoming and then your mom so there's one more incoming.

Oh no. One more.

Nancy:
Here we go. After a before my mother passed away. I had the MRI and then I went for a follow-up at with Dr. Blackwood and she said, okay, this is this is your DCIS.

We see it. It's exactly where it is. We know where it is.

It will be simple to have it surgically removed. Okay. However I know.

She said at the very end they do over a thousand images. That's why if you get an MRI it's like They put the headphones on, they pump music in as if that's gonna drown out. It's very noisy.

And they said, We found another area of concern. So she said come back, I did so now I knew that there was something else. And so um I was now a little more concerned than I had been.

Uh. And so um then after I got that news When I knew I had to have surgery, but was encouraged to go see other doctors. That's when my mother passed away.

Oh, wow. Right after I knew for sure that it was One plus another one. Right.

And so um And you didn't know the other one yet. I didn't know anything about it.

Lisa:
Just something looming. Okay.

Nancy:
So she encouraged me to go to a plastic surgeon just to find out if I had uh any surgery. Cause some women get this diagnosis of a DCIS and choose to do nothing. Part of that is because they classify as stage zero cancer.

Oh. I have a problem with that and it might be like where I It's still cancer. It's Can't it's malicious inside your body.

Why are you calling it age zero? Because zero means nothing, doesn't it? Right.

Lisa:
Well, that's how our minds hear that. Yeah, that's a good point. I did not know that.

Nancy:
Yeah, I think that they need to call it entry level. cancer or something other than stage zero. Because then you don't feel very um like it's urgent to do something about it.

Lisa:
But anyway, so I went to the plastic surgeon. And there's so much other stuff in life to juggle as a woman, you know, work and family and yeah, uh daughter, mother, grandpa spouse, whatever. Yeah.

Yeah, what you're gonna put that on the back burner if it's not urgent. It's always me on the back burner. Yeah.

Nancy:
But anyway, um And I like it that way, okay. We love our people. Yes, yeah.

So um I Went listened to everything he had to say and I thought, I'm not doing that. Because they actually talked about a full double mastectomy at that point. And my brain couldn't wrap my head around stage zero and you're gonna what Right, right.

So then I went to another doctor in the city and he looked at my reports and he said, Wait, you had this diagnosed from a CT scan? He said, I've been treating patients for forty years. I have never seen this before.

Lisa:
That was the second person who said that.

Nancy:
The second person. Third actually, because my doctor who said the mammogram and then Dr. Blackwood said that about the angel with their finger on the scan, and then some completely unrelated. Doctor in the city.

All back to the initial kidney stone visit. Wow. Yeah, very astounded that it was found that way.

So for me, that was um affirmation. I'm like, wow, God, you you did that for me. I wasn't doing it for you.

Wow. So I think because of that, combined with prayers of a Bible study group that I'm in through my church. Those women are amazing.

They were with me every step of the way through the whole process. And I have to tell you, Lisa very much unlike myself, I honestly was never fearful. That's the best word I can use.

It's scary, but I didn't have any sense of panic inside of me. There was such a Calm and I know that came because other people were lifting me up. Wow.

And so it's kind of cool that I can get A CT scan for a kidney stone that has me, you know, hanging my head over the toilet and then saying now I'm finding out about this cancer. And oh by the way, I was also getting stuff done for the ovary and that story is not completely closed yet. We're watching it.

Lisa:
Well I'm okay.

Nancy:
Is that the extra that was the That was what was on the C Oh the original you said that. Yeah. Right. And and they found something on both sides, but everything on my right side Turned out to be nothing.

Lisa:
Wow.

Nancy:
So I after Doctor Blackwood told me that there was um the second cancer. I started to slow like my thinking a little bit. Anyway, in the end I decided that I would do a double lumpectomy. So it sounded kind of cute to me. Um So what they ultimately like they take uh create if we can think of something cute in the middle of a nut.

Lisa:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nancy:
So what they removed was like a b and like I'm no scientist, but about the size of a quarter and then they take a margin around that. So in my circumstance that was a pretty hefty chunk Um and then they also took the second one. But I thought I'll just whatever.

I'll figure out a way to live with this. You want to get it out though. You want that zero out.

Lisa:
That's right.

Nancy:
Because zero grows and zero turns into something else. So why would you play with it?

Lisa:
Right.

Nancy:
So of course it was fourth of fourth of July weekend. So I had my surgery on the twenty-seventh, which was a Thursday, and then my follow-up was not until July fifth. So Knowing what I I'm sorry, I'm just laughing at myself. Knowing what I knew I knew I know, I'll go into my chart. Oh no!

Lisa:
Oh no! I even see that coming. So what are you? I'm doing fireworks?

Nancy:
Yeah, I I gonna You know you know how they you know how they how they can do um you may need chocolate. Like yeah a parent control of things that kids could watch on a TV. I needed a I need a Nancy control on my chart because what am I doing?

So I I went in and I was checking it like kind of obsessively. I'm like, I wanna know. Like every so out free laur.

Watermelon. Yeah. No, I just every naughty thing I do is in the middle of the night.

That's like a lot of people. When when it's not and naughty, my naughty is defined by my chart. So go figure.

Oops. So anyway, I went in and I saw the report and I was like, okay, they got DCIS, DCIS. Okay, so here's a a little technicality.

The DCIS the big one was kind of like under my armpit. Oh okay. And that like on that side.

And then the mystery spot as we call it was much closer to the center of my body. And they kept talking about DC. And you didn't know that until No, I knew.

You knew that. But for some reason my brain could not comprehend the English language as I read that report. But I there's m I got more for you, but we'll come back to that.

So because now there's something called uh AI and chat GTP and you can take your medical record. Yeah, so that that helped that was a help to me though, because I didn't understand something. So I thought these people who write these reports, they're so dumb.

My DCIS is on that side, not this side. And so I'm just reading that talk break. So here's the thing.

I went to the doctor and I knew exactly what would happen because after all, I am so smart. I was gonna go in. she would say.

Lisa:
I love your sense of humor in this 'cause that actually is a very key part in in this whole thing.

Nancy:
All of the people who handled me as it were through this whole process to what every to the person they would say. you're gonna be fine. And I'd be like, Mm, yeah, you're not the one with cancer. It's me.

Lisa:
Right, right.

Nancy:
Yeah. Um but the the dwelling and the pondering Also happened in the middle of the night for me. I never thought about it during the day. Well I never felt sick

Lisa:
I never felt anything. There's more distractions during the day though and busy to keep us occupied. Yeah.

And isn't there even something in like Psalms where like King David even talks about like laying on his bed and thinking about God, but that's a time that it's quiet and we start thinking about all. And the things, you know. Absolutely.

Nancy:
So in the in the quiet is where I would um just think more deeply. Right. Um, which of course sent me to prayer and sent me to the place where I knew I was prayed for.

I knew I was the recipient of a great miracle. And so I just kept leaning on God in a new and different way than I ever had in the rest of my life. Well I mean uh it's kind of Compelling.

You know, because when you hear that you have um a diagnosis of cancer Okay. I was already shaving my head. I was gonna be going through chapy.

They were gonna like cut me down to my, you know, chest wall like everything that I didn't understand about cancer was my reality until I learned otherwise.

Lisa:
Wow. I think that's the first thing we all think. Right. Well our brains go zero to sixty really fast. And my mine goes to a hundred easily.

Nancy:
Yeah, I don't stop at sixty

Lisa:
You're on the middle of the night, things really get yeah get bigger, I feel like sometimes.

Nancy:
I knew because I make up my own scripts. This is my life. I I'm I don't know.

What are these skips about? Maybe maybe there's medications. I just decided that I would see Dr. Blackwood.

She would say to me, Okay, we got everything. It's great. Here's your prescription.

You'll take that for five years. There's nothing more to do. So because I took a sort of aggressive approach, and it was my decision what to do.

Yeah. She Told me that I would bypass and didn't have to have any chemo and I didn't have any radiation.

Lisa:
Wow.

Nancy:
So it was a simple answer. And the lumpactomy, um The result of that is uh like about two weeks where you're kind of off your game. Dr. Blackley said to me, We found a second cancer.

She said, this is very unusual. And this is after the lymphatic. And there was a second DCIS.

Only it was not the same as the first one.

Lisa:
Oh.

Nancy:
So now you'll notice a theme. Is that what you found in the portal then July fourth? I was reading it but I thought they were talking about it's when you were like you're not writing this right.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Nancy:
Like these people Get a life and do it right. Do your job right because you're messing with me. No, they did it right.

Lisa:
It was easier to sit and just pass judger in up and I I read it several times.

Nancy:
Surely it's not my inability to comprehend English. It's so anyway. Um she went.

It's almost merciful you didn't Oh it ain't merciful. You know Yeah, it is So um she said to me, listen, it's very unusual to have two different cancers in the same breast. So now we have to rethink your treatment.

Okay. When she said that I knew what was my next step. Right.

And she said, you can't tell me what you want to do now. Wait a week. Talk to your family.

Talk to the people you trust. Right. So and I did.

I went back to my doctor and I discussed it with him and I knew that I would be getting a double mastectomy. And a a mastectomy, I came to find out, is not what you think it is. They have many variations of what they can do.

And the earlier they detect your cancer, the more options they have. Right, right. But when I left that day I knew what was gonna happen.

And in that moment, that was the first time that I felt a heaviness about what I was going through. Because I knew it was another surgery. Right.

And I don't do well with anesthesia. I woke up, I was like, that's it. I'm fine.

You know, and I went home and it wasn't really painful. So anyway, um But then after I got the results and I found that there was a second one and I knew what I had to do next. It is, okay.

But the fact that I had Two different kinds on the same size. Basically, my body's good now that it learned how to make one tumor, it's good at it, cause now it's making a new one and a different kind. Right So I left and I got in my car and I don't know that I've heard of that.

Wow. Yeah. I got in my car and oh What when we knew it was there, I went for two more mammograms and two more ultrasounds.

They were trying to find it so that they could do a biopsy on it, but it was so So new to my body that they couldn't even find it. That's why it had to be removed. It was just a mystery spot.

So I got in my car And you do just kind of go, okay, okay, okay, I'm okay. 'Cause then I I'm driving home. Right, right.

And um I got out on the road that would take me home and I looked up in the sky, filling my entire windshield, was a cloud that looked just like an angel. And I thought, I'm gonna be fine. They always tell me you're gonna be fine.

And I'm not I'm not like really mystical that way. Yeah, and I'm not um I took a picture of it But I knew, I understood that I would be fine.

Lisa:
And so that God sighting I d we talk about we've talked um about that in my family over the years, like growing up and then with our children of seeing God's hand in our days, whether it's tough things going on or whether it's good, you know, we don't we shouldn't forget looking for God sightings when it's good too. Yeah. But wow, what a moment because you said you had that heaviness and it's like God Yeah, showed up.

Nancy:
I get a a CT scan for a kidney stone. I end up having something terrible discovered. Right. And um I just And then layers along the way. I think cancer and oh I kind of sped past that For the first time in my whole life at my church we had a healing service and that was right after I found out that I had the cancer.

Lisa:
Oh wow.

Nancy:
And they called anybody who wanted to be anointed with oil to come up and I thought, well, I guess that'd be me. And I went up and this beautiful woman prayed with me and but I had to say why I was there. And that kind of was the first time I strung together the words.

I have breast cancer. You had not really that. No. No. Like I could say I have a I they found something And it's cancer, but I never said the words I have breast cancer out loud and that sort of startled me a little bit.

But when when we prayed for me, which was just like a whole bunch of people around us were praying, I walked away and I'm like, hmm, that's gonna work. I'm gonna be fine. So you see, I made another script.

My script was okay. So I mean not to be rude about it, but I went forward. I got the prayer I'm gonna believe that it that it's gonna be fine, that I could be healed.

Right. And what I didn't know was it wasn't the cancer in me that had to be healed. It was other parts of me.

I actually do you know I only recently found out that I'm not in control of all of this I I'm not in control, could you imagine?

Lisa:
Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

Well you think of as as a mom, a wife, a mom working all that. We're holding all the pieces together a lot of times and juggling all of that. Yeah.

You know, and encouraging and whatever and But and we think we're in control. Oh, boy, but then it takes something where we totally aren't. Isn't it interesting? It's in us.

Mm-hmm where it's not in control. We have nothing to do with that. It has to be God helping us with that Yeah.

Because we can't touch that inside, you know, and no.

Nancy:
And using an earthly surgeon to Well that that even gets to be more fun speaking of an earthly surgeon. So My surgery was October 24th. And betw what happens is you work with the breast surgeon and a plastic surgeon because I opted for the reconstruction.

Okay. So that doctor kind of when when I had What they did was a mastectomy is all of the breast tissue was removed. But in my case, they were able to not have to touch the outside of my body.

So so even with everything that's been done surgically, it's sort of Get rid of all the cancer inside and okay. All of the breast tissue. And the reason for that is I asked Dr. Blackwood, what are If I do the lumpectomy, mm-hmm, if I just bypass this, right, 'cause I already have the lumpectomy, that's how they knew about the second syrup.

I said, what are the chances that I do everything right?

Lisa:
Yeah.

Nancy:
Will it come back? And she said, it's between 8 and 10%. And I thought, okay.

Two percent chance of ever getting it, and now you're up in the number to possibly ten. I'm just gonna have the surgery. I couldn't face the thought of my children having to care for me at the end if I did nothing and it was avoidable.

Right, right. It was avoidable. So um The day before now I'm getting really wound up, okay?

Because this is a big surgery. And I didn't even know how big of the surgery Until after? I think they told me.

I'm sure they did.

Lisa:
But how are you supposed to really know? Because they can tell you, but Like my shoulder surgeon said I could watch a video online. I'm like, I'm not watching. Oh no, see I would.

Nancy:
I would. That's me. I wanna know everything.

But sh they it was a four and a half hour surgery. Now you see I script everything, right? I decided that before they put me under, I wanted to ask would they mind if I prayed?

And I was gonna pray for everybody in the operating room. But I didn't. Because You're on drugs at the I'm strapped to the table, my arms are out, you know, you're like in this right I don't know. They call it a gown.

It's not a gown, it's a piece of paper towel And they um you know, you're there and they're just about ready to do everything and Dr. Blackwood's at the the the room is buzzing with all these people. And um I said, oh by the way, I was in a little car accident yesterday. She says, everybody stop.

She had to ask me all these questions. Somebody was backing out of a space at Trader Joe's and they didn't look and they just crashed right into my car. And I sat there holding this here and we're like, okay.

Five o'clock in the morning. I have to be at the hospital and you just hit my car and I have to sit here and wait for the police. I had things to do.

Right. Because after you have the surgery, you have six full weeks of restrictions where you can't lift anything heavier than a coffee cup. You can't bend over.

You can't reach actually I had another surgery, so I'm on those restrictions right now. You have to sleep sitting up you know, on your back. It's a lot.

Lisa:
Right.

Nancy:
And it was about five o'clock in the afternoon. And so I had to sit there and wait for the cops to come. Anyway, so forget all that.

So I told her and she's like, okay, everybody stop I missed my moment to pray because the the room was booked and the clock was going. Right. I woke up, I was exceedingly tired But I felt fine.

So again, uh you know, I did the I got red hair. She starts the surgery and then the plastic surgeon comes in and they I know install's night the right right word. That's for like cars.

They install the tissue expander, so it's all in one surgery. Right I went to see Dr. Blackwood like maybe ten days later. She said, You look good The surgery went really well and I said, you know, I had really, really, really intended to pray with everything beforehand, right?

Now look. There's like no parts of me that are secret anymore. Right.

And I somehow have become a little bit more bold than usual. And um I said, but I just didn't get a chance to do it. And I said, but I want you to know that I was never afraid.

I said, I'm in a Bible study group And my ladies are so faithful in praying for me. And I always get emotional when I get to this part. She said to me Ah, those Bible study ladies, she said, What does the Bible say when two or three are gathered in my name?

I was like, oh my gosh. Wow. Right.

She told me. She told me that. I mean, in that moment, she revealed to me who she was.

God not only Gave me a CT scan that never works for cancer. Right. He gave me a cloud to calm me.

He hooked me up With a Christian surgeon, how could that be? Wow. And she said, I pray over every one of my patients.

She said, and I want you to know She said, I want you to know there were three believing believer Christians In that room with you. Well. All of us were together.

She said, and we all prayed for you. Well. I mean, what are the odds?

What are the odds?

Lisa:
I was just lowered by that all the threads of like you said, the C T scan, the cloud, that I do have a question. Sure. So I do wanna jump back a little bit because you've talked about trusting God. when I first knew you, I don't think you would have been in a Bible study.

Nancy:
No.

Lisa:
I do you can you just give a little story of why did why do you have a relationship with God? Why is Jesus important to you?

Nancy:
And A lot of my story about um the change in my life is also involves your dad. Um I went to campus life where things really important and spiritual things were talked about. And I actually went for um two years Mm.

I always knew at the meetings, I don't know if you knew this about me. I knew that at the end of the meetings. Your dad would have a clipboard.

I knew when he pulled the clipboard up and would sit down, he put like one foot up on the rung of the it was like stools, right? A stool. And I go, okay, this is where he's gonna start talking about God.

So I And you roll your eyes probably just like Oh no, I didn't only roll my eyes. I took all my friends and said it's time to go. We he would be talking to us about important stuff and I would leave.

Yeah. And bring people with me. Because I didn't want to hear it You were a leader too, right?

Yes. I didn't yeah Not the best kind at that point. But um I Leadership can be channels.

Yeah, it was. It was God can do that. Yeah.

So um Eventually I really came to care about your dad and like him, and I thought, well, that's not very nice that I'm leaving. And when I heard what he was saying, it started to slowly work at me that um there was someone who loved me for who I was and someone who loved me perfectly

Lisa:
Wow.

Nancy:
And that was very appealing to me because I grew up, you know, it uh I was born in the fifties, grew up in school in the sixties and seventies. A lot of parents were um we parents didn't really like there was a way to do things and there was no problem with corporal punishment. There was no it was a very tense childhood.

I always want to be mindful to respect my parents but I'm a little more free to talk about it now that they've passed because I would never do anything to disrespect them because eventually there was a healing in our family. So I feel like it's not really fair to bring up a lot of the things that happened in my childhood, but It was stressful. It was a very difficult time for me.

As a freshman in high school, I actually would fall asleep trying to figure out how many pills it would take to die.

Lisa:
Wow.

Nancy:
I would like think that was that late night. Yes, you see. Yeah, it did. It was always that way.

Lisa:
But um I didn't do it. And the reason why it would be I'm thankful. I'm thankful you're here and all the lives you've touched.

Nancy:
Uh well me too. I'm thankful to have been here for every bit of it, including my current situation. But um I went away to a camp and uh it was a week long camp and it was really the first first time that I seriously considered how a personal relationship with the God of the universe could change me, heal me, help me.

So I was about sixteen. Now I didn't come from a church family. I didn't understand so much.

I didn't own a Bible. I didn't know any of it was a whole new idea to me and in the I was invited to pray with someone who would help me to know what to say, how to accept Christ as my personal savior, but I wasn't ready to do it in front of anybody. So I went back to our hotel room and there was a bathroom in between two hotel rooms.

It's a breedy bunch. Yes. We were sh we were the Brady Bench, all right.

And um I went into the bathroom and I just Was overwhelmed and overcome with an urgency that I needed to open the door as scripture teaches us because Jesus was knocking there and I could hear him and I wanted to open the door. So I just said I didn't know what to do. It was just so foreign to me.

And I I started out just saying, God, I don't even know If you can hear me. I don't know if I'm just talking or if you hear me, but I'm ready to turn my life over and to accept Your gift of salvation. And when I lifted up my head, I turned and looked in the shower.

And there was a somebody took a t-shirt and they threw it over the curtain rod. And as clear as day on the wall was a shadow of Jesus uh it was of the portrait that was hanging up in my Sunday school when I was a little little girl. It's a very common painting.

A lot of like uh prayer cards at funeral homes use it a lot. It's like a profile, it's like from the shoulders up And it was that exact profile was on the wall. And I often goodness.

I often think that, how cool is that that I was so unsure. I recognized the need that I had, but I was so unsure that how did I get a gift? uh of something like that.

Wow. And it stays with me. It it was really interesting.

So if if you look, you maybe can see where God has been, right? Wow. But you gotta look for it.

Lisa:
Right. Oh. I love that.

And I love that honestly we can just cry out to God however. just spoke from your heart talking to him in that moment. And that is just powerful.

And I'm so thankful for that relationship being such an anchor for you in life. Mm-hmm

Nancy:
I was at your parents' house when you were about a year and a half old at a Bible study with your dad. Yeah, so But that I mean that was like everything was new at that point. Yeah, yeah.

So yeah. That that is when I met you by going to the house It was hard. It took me a couple years to kind of figure out where I was going.

And um I ended up going to a Christian college because I decided that that was the important thing for me to do because I I really didn't know. anything about anything. So um that's how it is that fast forward that that's been a central part

Lisa:
I cannot help but think of the verse about our n uh just how Jesus is our gives us that hope that is our anchor firm and secure. Yes. And no matter what it is, like walking through the loss of my mom was one of my biggest losses, walking through cancer You said something to me, you messaged something to me at one point about why you can look cancer in the face.

Do you remember that? No. You said because of Jesus. Yeah.

You can stare cancer in the face And I was like, wow. Yeah, see, I don't even remember saying but, but that is the truth of it. Yeah.

Nancy:
There's no way that this rude teenager walking out on your dad in a meeting where he was sharing the most important news that we could hear there was no way within myself that I'm strong enough. And I Can truly say, not because of me, but because of the people around me, I was never truly afraid. Concerned, worried, yes.

But afraid? No. Wow. Wow.

I never felt that before. I really didn't. And so to me Remember how I said I did the prayer thing, my can't that wasn't my healing. This is my healing.

Wow

Lisa:
So being okay with being out of control.

Nancy:
Yeah.

Lisa:
Because God's got the control. That that just Yeah, but hits everybody, whether cancer or not, and that we want to be in control. But his control

Nancy:
Healed me. Yeah. Like you think you you think about all the things in your life that you want, that you want to do, and they're like, ugh, those People, they have rules, they read the Bible, like there's all these rules.

Hey, guess what? The rules, the living, the trusting is what made my life possible. I can tell you with all certainty I was never getting a mammogram.

So, you know, God said, well, we'll give you a kidney stoning What do you think about that one? We're gonna just sit in there. Yeah.

So it's really for me, so that I did get my healing, just not the one I wanted.

Lisa:
Right Wow. Well, and a couple takeaways. I love, I love just your um you looking to God through all this, your hope in him, your relationship with him.

I love the community you have that you've sought to be involved with other people, be in those Bible studies and praying friends who care. And I I just think those thing and and also being attentive to just seeing those God sightings in your days. Like you couldn't avoid the sky, you know, but yeah.

God's hand, being attentive to like, okay, go now to the hospital and um even wanting to pray for the surgery and connecting with your surgeon and just so many things I I think are beautiful in this story and I'm sorry you've had to walk through that, but I know It's made you deeper and richer and you're still walking through it. Yeah, the other things.

Nancy:
I tell people I feel like I had pretend cancer because I have a long view now, right? When I first got diagnosed, you only know that moment and I I was I was in my head going through the chemotherapy. I was losing my hair.

I was just doing all the things. Now I look back. What was it?

It wasn't a big deal. Right. So I think for me, that's sort of like the best way to look at life.

And there is really a truth to it that as you get older, you have such a better perspective on life. You know, as a teenage kid, when I was pondering harming myself. I was fourteen.

I had no long view. Wow. I only had my current view and the stresses that were in my family.

And in my life. I have a long view now and the things that you think are such a big deal in the moment Maybe when you're younger, maybe when you don't have evidence. I look back in my life, I have an evidence of all the You what do you call them?

God touches? God sightings. God sightings.

I can see that. I can see it and the the puzzle makes sense. Wow.

Oh my goodness.

Lisa:
Yeah. Well, you know, I know I've heard my dad talk about um this this man his dad was trying to read his newspaper and His son kept coming up to him again and again, Daddy, can we do something? And he said, You know what?

Um he tore a page out of the newspaper and he said, As soon as you get this Oh, and made it into like just torb pieces. When you put this together, we'll do something. Well, the boy put it together really fast and He said, uh he said, Well, why uh I d how'd you get it together so quickly?

And the boy said, Well, I looked at the picture of the man on the back and you think of that's what Jesus does for us and y when you tie into the pieces and the puzzle and Um, that's what Jesus does for us. And Nancy, thank you for sharing your story. I know it's very personal.

It's I pray it has been encouragement to you wherever you're at, or maybe you know someone walking through this right now. And if you don't have that hope that Jesus offers you, I pray you'll give him a chance and look at Jesus. And I love Mancy's story of how she chose to do that years ago and how it's been that lifeline.

And because when you put the man together like that and puts everything together, all the pieces in life. So thank you for joining us, Nate. Thank you.

Thank you for reminding me. Love you too. And next time please come back and join us for more Thrive in the Mess.