Naked & Ashamed: Looking for Love in all the Wrong Places – Coreen’s Story of Hope

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. So hey friend, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

I am so excited to have my friend Coreen with me. me today and Coreen you have had a life full of success and heartache and messes and we're just gonna be catching up for catching up like we're at coffee. Well, kinda like here we are and and Uh and just kinda jumping into some of the messes of your life that you've walked through.

Coreen:
Well, I yeah, I have a life full of messes and um in the mess I found success in c my career as a graphic designer. And but I think what really stands out as I look back is that my whole life I was searching for love.

Lisa:
Wow.

Coreen:
Like I wanted to be loved. I felt like I missed out on love first and foremost from my mom. And uh my sister and I went through sexual abuse and That led to a lifetime of confusion and hurt and I think, you know, when innocence is lost. it becomes a mess.

Lisa:
Right, right. And so that was younger and then fast forward through life if that's not if that's that can be left as kind of an open wound.

Coreen:
Yes, definitely. And so I think it just I looked for love in all of the wrong places basically. And I got myself into some toxic relationships, I had a teen pregnancy. And I just remember if I think back on my life I think of a lot of loneliness, a lot of depression, a lot of confusion, and I think I'd mass that through becoming a perfectionist and having the appearance of Wow. Kind of having it all together.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Coreen:
But at the end of the day you have to look in the mirror at yourself. And I think at the end of the day I would look at myself in the mirror and feel like I was confused. I was lonely and I didn't know how to love and I didn't know how to be loved.

And I think as when you have unresolved trauma and abuse, I think you not only don't know how to love yourself, you don't know how to love others. Mm-hmm. And I felt like a failure as a mom.

And I think that was one of the greatest shames that I struggled with. four kids, two of them I didn't raise and I think especially as a native mom because natives value being a mother, um and I had horrible experiences, I felt like. Um where, you know, each pregnancy just had its its trials and through all of those I think the loneliness just got darker and darker.

And eventually Um, I got married and I thought Did that help? No no. It made things worse. It became another man.

I thought it was gonna be the love of my life. I thought it was gonna be like the greatest thing ever. And uh you know, we met in a bar.

We met drinking and three months later we were married and two weeks later I realized uh that this was a

Lisa:
a mess. This was a disaster.

Coreen:
And both of us um yeah, both of us struggled with our addictions and um I think I was young, I didn't know I just didn't know. And during that time I that's when I gave up my kids and because I th I wanted the relationship. No, two.

And I wanted because I wanted the relationship. I wanted to be loved. And so I felt like I would do anything for that.

And it was wrong. And I think every day I just felt a tremendous amount of guilt. And so I would hide that guilt again through perfectionism, like being successful in other ways.

in my career, um, joining the Navy reserves, owning an art gallery, moving. We thought all of our problems were because we lived on the res. Like the res is the problem.

So we moved away, moved to Maine um opened an art gallery there, but our problems followed us. And the problems got worse actually So you're saying that messes don't stay behind. No. We can't just leave 'em behind and run away.

Lisa:
When we run address problems, you stay here and please do not forward our uh mail. Yeah.

Coreen:
Oh, Maine's a beautiful state. So maybe we'll be beautiful if we move to Maine.

Lisa:
Right. So in the middle of all this, there's a lot of different layers that You're talking about of the sexual abuse uh when you were younger and then uh looking for love in different places and then loneliness. depression and then getting married and feeling like you're not a good mom. That's a lot of pressure and then the pressure of trying to be perfect in the middle of all of the mess of okay, well maybe did you kind of hope If you tried to live a certain way, you would feel better about life or that others wouldn't see the mess, or both.

Coreen:
Probably both. I think I wanted people to think that I had it all together. And I also felt like I didn't have deep relationships where I could go to somebody to be real and to be authentic. And so I feel like I just wore the mask of perfection and And hit it well.

Lisa:
Well, at least I thought I was hidden well. And you know, that's a good reminder to people. It's a good challenge to say to be able to be there to be able to be that safe space, that person for someone to be real.

Yeah. Because life goes so fast and I often think about how um You know, we're good about asking the first question about how are you? But if anyone answers anything other than, oh I'm good, thanks, you know, we panic.

Like but there are times I feel like we need to ask the second question. Meaning, I I'll often say, um, that's not real convincing. How are you really?

And I don't think there's ever been anyone who hasn't instantly stepped out and said something.

Coreen:
Yeah.

Lisa:
But if we take the time to ask that second question, and I do know now we're hearing some of the hard Messes, but I know now you actually help a lot of people walk through and find a lot of healing with all these different layers, but um let's talk a little bit more. Okay, so you're married. Um you do not have your children at this point.

Coreen:
I didn't have two.

Lisa:
You didn't have two of them. Okay. So how is life going? Did you Horrible. And and you moved, so but the problems followed you, so what do you do then?

Coreen:
Yeah. Well, it's interesting because at that time I mean, the Lord was looking out for me then, and I was surrounded by Christian neighbors who became like family to me. But one in particular was a pastor's wife and I remember she would come over and I'd be like, Oh, what does this lady want? And why is she being so nice to me? I just I didn't trust people's intentions and

Lisa:
So I was very guarded with her and I remember A lot of reasons why. That's totally understandable. Yeah.

Coreen:
I remember telling her, like, what do you want? Like why do you keep coming over here? Why are you being so nice to me?

And I'm like, I know you're a Christian And I don't want you sharing any of that Jesus stuff with me and shoving your Christianity down my throat. So you're welcome to come over here, but don't be pulling any funny stuff with me. So I yeah, I wasn't very nice about it, you know, and and But she kept coming over.

You were showing it like it is. You were honest. Yeah, I was like, none of that's for me.

And I just remember her asking me one day, can I pray for you? And during that time was probably the height of my the end of my marriage. where our both of us, you know, are were not healthy.

And I was in the Navy Reserves. I joined right after 9-11.

Lisa:
And so that was scary.

Coreen:
And on my drill weekends I was just partying the whole weekend. And I don't even know if I slept the whole weekend. But I broke down and just started crying and um opened up to her and she prayed for me out loud Now the only prayers I had ever heard were more like, oh, you know, bless this food to our body in Jesus' name.

Lisa:
Amen.

Coreen:
Very kind of shallow prayers and But the way she prayed really started to soften my heart and I became very curious, like, why is she praying like that?

Lisa:
Like it's so authentic, it's so real and And you were craving that. That authentic and that remote.

Coreen:
And I was like, I want to talk like that. Like I wanna be open with somebody like that. And and so I just started asking her a lot of questions and I feel like in and out of my life because my uncle is a pastor on my reservation, I feel like there have there has been a lot of Christian influence in my life but I just really didn't want it.

Um I had a lot of misconceptions about what it was and I would turn to it in times of desperation maybe, but ultimately Uh we we moved back to New York and soon after, um, yeah, my first husband left. Um kind of in the middle of the night basically and I felt so devastated by that. I don't know why that felt more devastating than anything else I had been through.

I think a lot of it was my my worth, my value. I didn't have any self worth, any value. I didn't see myself as valuable and I felt like the only thing that I could get was the love love from an from a man and um in all of the wrong ways and that love came from being sexual and um manipulative.

And so I just remember after he left just hit just feeling like my whole world fell apart and I really didn't know what to do. But I mean I at that point I was a single mom to the two kids that I had and I just had to pull up my bootstraps and work harder and um put the facade back on that I can keep it together.

Lisa:
Wow.

Coreen:
And uh so I just dove into my career, but I also became addicted to online dating and I felt like That was an outlet for me that I could meet these guys, I could you know, have these sexual relationships and try to find that love that I s was still searching for.

Lisa:
And maybe not feel like as much of a failure.

Coreen:
Yeah. In that regard. Yeah, I mean I was masking.

I knew I was a master at masking things and having the appearance that you know, I was just a good time girl. Like I could go out and have fun and party girl. And I just remember one night being with this guy and when I would get to his apartment the first thing he would do is hand me a drink.

And it was not a re an emotional relationship. It was not a supportive relationship. It was

Lisa:
purely a sexual relationship.

Coreen:
And I just remember one night laying in bed crying. And of course he didn't know that I was crying, but just laying there crying and asking myself like you know, I was married to somebody that treated me like garbage and now I'm continuing to s to look for these guys that are just using me. And then it was the most real moment in my life, laying there naked and ashamed.

I felt the hand of Jesus on my sh literally felt the hand of Jesus on my shoulder. I just felt him touch me and say, Corine, why do you do this to yourself? Why do you continue to devalue yourself in this way when I have so much more for you?

And I shot out of that bed, got dressed, and I was like Okay, Lord, if you mean what you say, if you really love me, I will live the rest of my life for you.

Lisa:
Wow.

Coreen:
And that was in 2008, early 2008. And I yeah, it it just blew me away that God was so real that he would meet me right in that mess. Wow.

And just pull me out of it. Um, I feel like I finally understood the love that I had been looking for my whole life. I finally understood that love and I no longer felt that internal sense of hopelessness that Everything I do was never gonna be enough.

I finally understood my purpose and that I no longer had to look for love in all of the wrong places

Lisa:
And so in two thousand eight, um, on Eagles Wings had been to my reservation and a team of Native American young people.

Coreen:
Yes, yeah, and I was blown away to see I don't know, sixty native youth professing their faith in Jesus.

Lisa:
I had just never seen that before.

Coreen:
And I remember hearing about on Eagle's Wings and I thought, oh, are they real natives? And and then when I saw them I was like, oh my gosh, these are like real natives and they're young. They're young. Like I just had so much admiration for their courage

Lisa:
to take a stand for their faith.

Coreen:
Um, because I hadn't really seen that before. And I was like, I want that. And there was a team member, named Berkey Bird, who was like, Hareen, you should travel with on Eagles Wings, like, you really should, and I was like, no, I don't think so.

I'm like, I don't want to be that kind of Jesus freak. Right. Um And I was in between I was interviewing for some jobs.

One was in Boston and I really wanted to take the job and move to Boston. And um but it didn't start until August. So I remember driving on the New York State throughway one day and the one vice that I held on to was smoking.

It was still like kind of my outlet. And so I remember I was smoking a cigarette, just being all calm and and cool and driving on the three way and the Lord's like, I want you to travel with on Eagles Wings. And I was like, oh my gosh.

Lisa:
Like I'm not gonna be able to smoke right.

Coreen:
How are you gonna do it? Yeah. I'm like, I can't smoke, but uh so I I called Ricky and I filled out my application and I traveled with the team that summer.

Lisa:
And just to throw in little aside comment in there, Ricky was also a very successful young man, like a driven successful young man similar to you, which is kind of interesting that you know, he saw that and he sadly passed away at age twenty-five with uh a tumor in his brain that grew so quickly and great loss, but I love hearing the legacy he left in your life even. That's powerful to hear that. That even when we're young we can make a difference and leave a legacy in the lives of others. Wow.

Coreen:
Yeah, I don't know why, but Ricky was obsessed with my reservation. He loved my res, he loved coming out there to visit and so I got to know him, you know through some of his visits and but yeah, I traveled with the team that summer and at the end of the month I realized that the most shameful parts of my story were the most powerful things that the Lord used throughout the summer to talk to

Lisa:
So many native girls that Only God.

Coreen:
Yeah. That were in the same place that I was. Um, you know, twenty one girl I talked to, she was twenty one, she had seven kids only one of them was with her, the rest were in foster care or and she was addicted and she gave them up for a guy and I've been in her shoes and I was able to share, you know what your circumstances might not change, but your eternal hope can. And um I think I just started to see how the things that I thought I needed to be the most ashamed about were the things that God wanted to use. And But I also had no grounding in the Bible and at the end of the month I felt like Lord the Lord was telling me, I want you to go to Bible college.

Lisa:
And I've That's a lot going from I know, you know.

Coreen:
I know, yeah. And so I was like, what? Like I'm not gonna go to Bible college.

Like You know what people are gonna say about me? I'm like, yeah, it was just crazy and everything just happened so fast and Um so I went to Indigenous Bible College um as a student, single mom, drove out there. had no idea what I was doing.

Lisa:
Which is amazing. I didn't know. Or you might not have I don't know if I would have.

Well and just to even think of the single mom part of okay, how am I gonna do this? You know, and do college. And I wanna also just you touched on earlier naked and ashamed and that's where God Stepped in.

Literally, you felt like his hand was on your shoulder. And I just love that God does not, shame traps us But God steps in and says, I love you. You are valuable.

You don't need to live like this. You're hurting yourself. And there's so much more for you.

And so I just what powerful uh you know, words to say naked and ashamed. Those are not powerful words, but God is. And He steps in at that moment And says, you are so treasured, you are so loved.

I made you and made you for more. So what a beautiful and then look at all this happening, your story. is now helping other people, other young women on reservations then, and then you're heading off to a Bible college that you were just telling your next door neighbor don't Talk to me about Jesus.

You know, and and then with your children, so how did that work out?

Coreen:
Well, uh yeah, I I applied and um the school hadn't accepted me but I knew the Lord was saying go and So you started driving without knowing that they accepted you. I was like, Well they haven't accepted me and I don't have time to wait around. So um And I just kept telling the Lord, Okay, Lord, he he was very specific about where he wanted me to go.

And I was like, But you do know that's in Arizona. I live in New York. I'm a single mom He's like Yes, I know.

And I'm like, okay. Um, and so the morning I left Buffalo, I remember it was like three or four in the morning, it was pitch blackout. And I was like, okay, Lord, I'm in the car.

Okay, I'm putting the car and drive. I'm leaving. And are you sure this is what you want me to do?

And in I don't know even know where this vehicle came from, this car came out of nowhere. There was nobody else on the street. This car came out of nowhere.

I didn't even see it pull out in front of me. And I looked down at their somehow I looked down at their plate and they had Arizona plates. Oh in Buffalo.

In Buffalo. I started laughing. I was like, okay, I get it.

Just follow the car in front of me. Hopefully they were ahead of Darus on Yeah, it was crazy.

Lisa:
Yeah. And so I think I love that how when we that God does hear us, we might not hear that quickly. Yeah.

Sometimes I it's not in our timing of I want to answer now, but I love that God does hear us. He does answer us. And wow, what an answer of Should I go to Arizona and then Okay, Arizona plates in New York.

So Yeah.

Coreen:
I mean what are the chances, right?

Lisa:
Like it was very clear.

Coreen:
And so I I don't know. I think the thing that stands out to me is that You know, God is a father. God is a provider.

God is And your dad was not around No, I I was yeah, I I w had a relationship with my dad. Um my dad raised me for part of my life. Um but I left home when I was fifteen.

Lisa:
And um

Coreen:
You know, that's around the time that I had a teen pregnancy and um my dad was somebody that I really respected and looked up to. Um but I had struggles um with with m and my stepmom and Yeah, it was it was hard. I think a lot of the confusion from my mom, like I just like being abandoned and um having the struggle and the battle of not quite understanding what I did wrong and um a lot of yeah a lot of the lack of love was rooted in that and it's so hard because as a child

Lisa:
these decisions you're on the receiving end of wounds and scars and hurt from abandonment or fill in the blank. But due to no nothing you did. And that's so hard when you have a child in the mix because it's others people's choices.

I'm not throwing anyone under the bus, but when there are adults in the picture and they're making choices, it affects the child. And then of course leads to, you know, how do you cope with that and leading to addictions and looking for love and so you were looking for love in all the wrong place as you said earlier. Did you ever find that love in Jesus?

Coreen:
Oh, absolutely, yeah. I I feel like his love was so real and Um, like I said, I feel like the like the angst and the loneliness were gone. Wow. Even though I was alone, like I was single, I hadn't been single for so long in my life. And um So that was a new thing too.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Coreen:
Wow. But I learned to enjoy it and

Lisa:
I felt healing with that, do you feel like?

Coreen:
Like you had been looking for I think it there was a lot of healing in that because I think you know, Jesus just proved himself to me over and over again that he was trustworthy, that he was faithful, that he was a provider. And just I learned to listen for his voice and his leading. And even if I didn't audibly hear something so powerful as when he spoke to me the first time or put the license plate in front of me.

Um but I felt like there were a lot of things like that that that happened and Um and but I think it was the voices of others too that, you know, he brought into my life. Um people that I knew I could trust to to go to and seek spiritual guidance from your mom and dad being two of those people, they were like spiritual parents to me and and a lot of other people too. It wasn't it wasn't just the two of them, but I think ultimately I really learned to depend on the Lord for everything that He was just providing for me and protecting me in ways that only He could.

Lisa:
And um did you feel like you could leave the striving for perfectionism did you feel like that had been healed in a way? 'Cause that's an exhausting way to live too, of striving to put a good face forward, but did how did that play out?

Coreen:
Um I think that I had to grow really grow in the word and understand my true identity.

Lisa:
Reading the the Bible, right?

Coreen:
Yeah, studying God's Word, um being at the Bible college. really helped me um become more grounded in my faith and because of those things I think it helped kind of uh like start chipping away at some of those things and um to be more authentic, to be more um to understand my true identity helped me to be more comfortable with myself. And I think instead of growing in arrogance or um worm pride or roos rooster pride, I felt like I gained godly confidence. Mm-hmm. and started.

Lisa:
What did you just say? Rooster Pride and can you explain that? Yeah, I can I don't know if I've heard that. Oh, okay.

Coreen:
Well yeah. See you helped so many people. So but I'm like, I don't know what that means.

Okay. Well Like rooster pride is thinking too highly of yourself. Like being arrogant and prideful.

Lisa:
And roosters do think too highly of themselves. They like to wake everybody up. So the most important is a rooster.

Coreen:
And then um worm pride is thinking too lowly of yourself.

Lisa:
Like I'm not good enough.

Coreen:
I'm not worthy. Like God can't love somebody like me.

Lisa:
And then you said where did you end up Well I felt like not roostered.

Coreen:
Yeah, I felt like God I gained godly confidence. Wow. And um uh m as I think a solid understanding of my true identity.

And because I think I s also struggled like, oh my gosh, like I'm a native, like on my wrist, like people don't want to want anything to do with Jesus and it's kind of a bad thing to become a Christian and so what do I do now that I'm native? Does that mean I'm not native anymore? Does that mean that I have to deny that that part of me and I I I I'm still trying to um embrace that part of me.

I think as a young child I learned to be ashamed to be native Um because I overheard um people talking about native people on my reservation in a derogatory way. And so in that moment I was like, Oh, it's not a good thing to be Native American and I felt a lot of shame from that. So I think that fed into my perfectionism too.

Like I wanted to speak speak well, I wanted to have a good appearance. I wanted to be able to um engage with people well and not sound like sound resie basically.

Lisa:
Right.

Coreen:
Um because I heard that conversation and what I heard is that being native is a bad thing that people look down on you, that's um you have to be ashamed of your culture.

Lisa:
And I am so sorry you heard voices like that. I know I you know, I have a daughter from a different ethnicity and other family and of course friends who are all different backgrounds and You know, I love how God made all of us equal and the same. I remember my mom saying, um, the ground is level at the foot of the cross.

No one's higher than anybody else. And I just I love that God made each of one of us valuable, unique. one of a kind and I am and no voice on earth can change that.

Yeah. That voice that you heard No voice can change that God given value. And I'm so thankful for that, that that determines who we are as people and equal and valuable and made by him and then God signs his name at the bottom of every masterpiece, the bottom of Kareem.

He signs his name as the master painter, just like um Oh I'm totally blanking on artists, but you know, the uh Yes. And you've got, you know, God right there at the bottom of Le of Lisa, you know, God just we are his masterpiece and I'm so thankful for that. But wow.

So okay, over with some of these different layers you mentioned, like Uh, the addiction, the partying, did did that just fall to the side? Did you uh was that a hard choice to let some of those things go? Like just because we find the hope that God offers.

It's not always an overnight thing, but sometimes it can be of you know what, I don't want that anymore. Like You got up out of that bed and you were like, that's it, I'm done and I'm out of here and life is going to be different. How were some of those other things affected, like um like the partying and you said smoking was the last thing to go and those kinds of things.

So um can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Coreen:
Yeah I think the I think in that moment I I was just tired of it. I mean, you just come to a place where you're sick of it.

Lisa:
Wow.

Coreen:
You're sick of creating your own mess. You're sick of the messes that you didn't create but that continue to feed into your own mess and I didn't like the way it felt um the day after. I didn't like what it would do.

I mean, there were so many times when I when I got in a vehicle and I was drinking and driving and by the grace of God, like I didn't kill somebody or myself. Right. And the countless times that I've done that.

And But yeah, the last the last vice to give up was the smoking and I gave it up because I was like, Oh, I'm gonna travel without an eagle's wings. I guess I can't smoke with a T I guess I can't go sneak behind a building and smoke, so I might as well quit. Smoke a cigar.

Yeah. And I was it's not like I was like a packaday smoker. I was more of a social and emotional s smoker.

Um like if I felt stressed out or if I was feeling hurt or if somebody hurt me, I would find comfort in in smoking.

Lisa:
How did you find comfort after that?

Coreen:
Um I learned to find comfort in God's word. I learned to find comfort in trustworthy people. I I love that trustworthy people. Yeah, people that would um help me redirect in the right way and not not give in to the the wrong things, but I think I did not know what living as a woman of integrity was before the Lord. Um, I felt like I knew how to manipulate people to get what I wanted and I knew how to take care of myself.

Lisa:
I didn't have the ability to So it's kinda survival. Yeah.

Coreen:
I feel like I didn't have the ability to love others or care for others and but I remember as a young child I was fascinated with people's problems. Like I wanted to know like why an alcoholic was an alcoholic or why a drug addict was a drug addict. Like I knew there was something behind it.

There was pain behind it, there was hurt behind it. But I wasn't a trustworthy person that anybody would come to to share their problems. And the the amazing thing through the transformation is That's exactly what I do now.

Lisa:
I was gonna say you are an ultimate trustworthy person. You has walked through a lot of deep wounds with people and We both uh know some of the same people who you've helped walk through because and I love Corine that you had no hope. You didn't even want your neighbor talking anything about Jesus.

And then there came a day where you found hope. And now you have shared that hope with so many people. The healing that you have walked through, you are very intentional.

about walking through healing with people. And I think your story is one of the most powerful, everyone's story. is powerful and unique but I feel like your story is so incredibly powerful because you have walked you needed healing You didn't have healing.

You were trying to find love in all these places. And then to walk through people to have that opportunity. But that's a choice you made to help walk through.

And it's interesting what you said. I didn't know that part of when you were younger like a child. Why is someone like that?

You know, an alcoholic or something or why do they do drugs? But But now you really do help people get to the bottom of it and share the hope that God can offer them. Instead, here's the biggest thing too, we've heard you talk about Living life my way, and there's God's way, and we can choose one or the other.

And I love how you said you just got tired of it. at a certain point, just got tired of creating mess and how God literally stepped into the mess. He doesn't care what we look like at that moment.

He doesn't care that we're naked and ashamed. He comes in and he hugs us and wraps us just in his arms and um wraps his arms around us and loves us in that moment and that has been the hope that I love that you've been sharing with us today. What are some of the most encouraging things you have seen walking through seeing other people walking through the hard things in their life and then healing?

Oh yeah. Just do you have any things that rise to the I'm sure everything is special. Is there anything in particular in particular that jumps out to you that You're like, wow, that just meant so much to see.

Coreen:
Yeah. Um there's I mean I joined the staff at Indigenous Bible College as the Dean of Women and So Isn't that something you took off in the car? Yeah.

I never knew. I thought I was gonna be there for a year. Um but yeah, and and I got married while I was there.

Um So the there's countless stories of students that you walk alongside of, mentoring, discipling, that have seen that have hung on, I guess, to the hope. And it's tiring, it's exhausting, but ultimately we're not the saviors. We're just the vessels that God calls on to come alongside of somebody and keep pointing them back to Jesus, keep pointing them back to the cross and saying, you know what, you don't have to live like this, just like I didn't have to, you don't have to live like this and the more you look to self harm, suicide, um, the wrong relationships, the more you look to these things the more hurt you're adding onto your life.

And you know what, you're young, like, you have a whole life ahead of you. And um I think just seeing some of the girls um walk out of uh struggles with with suicide attempts and self harm and finding freedom in God's word and his people and um learning to come out of I call it like Like they like to hide in their dark closet. But stepping out of that dark closet into the light and not keeping things hidden and in secret in there because that's where the enemy wants to keep you in that shame.

And that shame so hidden. You can't deal with it. No, you have to bring it out into the light.

And um But it's a choice. Everybody has a choice. And there really is no reason not to walk in that hope when you have people to surround you um and point you back to the Lord but I think, you know, even if we don't have somebody to turn to, God is always listening.

And we can pour our hearts out to Him, our pain. Um Yeah, I think I don't I don't have a specific story. I just think back of so many stories.

Right, right. And then there's, you know, the the stories that hurt a lot too that where somebody, you know, d didn't choose that and but you can't take it personally. Right.

Um, I think the thing is yeah, is the Dean of Women one of the things I say in student life is you know you have to have a soft heart and and strong shoulders because it's gonna hurt. You're gonna see people falling away or giving into their sin and but you can't take it personally.

Lisa:
You can only do so much we're not the saviors.

Coreen:
Um And that doesn't mean that it's not painful to watch and be witness to, but we wish we could make other people's choices and

Lisa:
I know people wish they could make choices for me sometimes too, I'm sure. It's like I you know, but I uh it true, God gives everyone the ability to choose and It's up to up to us and I I'm so thankful. You know, is I was listening to you talking, I was thinking, you know, you are a I don't know what to call it but like a hurt declutterer or or um you know you're talking about cleaning out closet yeah and just helping people know hey get that stuff out of your closet 'Cause you had a lot of that hurt in your own closet of di addictions and you know, whatever, uh loneliness and depression and um and so how beautiful that You now walk people through decluttering their closets.

Like I have some closets that are pretty scary that I don't want to know it's in the corners. But the thing is if we clean them out, it's so freeing. Because I know how I feel, including getting the little spiders too, you know, that might be in the corner.

And I love that you do that with people that you've gone from looking for love in all the wrong places, you said, to intentionally helping people to clean out their own closets now and to find a healing and hope in the God who loves them. and made them and through knowing his son Jesus. So Corine, I just thank you so much for even coming and sharing your story today and And uh do you have any final thoughts on what you would say to someone who's walking through any kind of mess?

Coreen:
Yeah, there's always hope even if your circumstances don't change.

Lisa:
There's an eternal hope and an eternal security.

Coreen:
I remember being on a reservation a few years back, um and walking around thinking, God, like how do we share a message of hope when everything just looks hopeless. I don't see hope in front of me. How are we supposed to share a message of hope when there is no hope?

Like, where are the jobs? Like where's the where's this? Where's that?

And I was just going through the list of what I would consider success and I just felt like I got a holy slap. I felt like the Lord like gave me a holy slap and said you know, you're wrong. You're looking at everything in front of you and these things are not gonna last.

But what I see is the eternal hope. And that's what I bring is the eternal hope. Instead of so somebody's circumstances may never change, their earthly circumstances, but their eternal hope can.

And I think that was a powerful lesson for me to take it back to what Jesus is all about is the hope of eternal security and even in the midst of our pain and our hurt. Um But yeah, I think that to me that really stands out.

Lisa:
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing just all the my way choices you made and uh what life has been like for you choosing God's way instead. And friend, if you are like, wow, I I'm tired of living in the messes like Corrine with choosing my way and whatever your way is and you're just tired of it.

If you're wanting to look to God's way, he offers so much hope as Corine shared and a whole different life. Hope for now. And hope for all eternity and a whole lot of life and peace.

So friend, I encourage you take a look at Jesus, give him a chance, cry out to God today the way Kareem did. And friend, if you'd like to find out. some help with that you can go to thriveinthemess.

com and I hope next time you'll join us on Thrive in the Mess