“How P*rn Destroyed My Life”: Annalisa’s Journey from Hurt to Hope | Thrive In The Mess | Hutchcraft Ministries

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. So hey friend, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

I'm glad you're here today. And I'm thrilled to have my friend Annalisa with me, and we're diving into the topic of pornography. And Annalisa, I am so So happy you're here.

It's been a while and I wish we could be together in person. But you know what? This is awesome to see you.

And why are we uh diving into the topic of pornography?

Annalisa:
I mean, yeah, I am so grateful to um to just get to be a part of this with you. Um, I really am very passionate about this subject. because it greatly impacted my life.

And um I have just been watching it impact the lives of so many people in my generation and pretty much every generation. And um it's just a very destructive thing. And I think it's really important for us to talk about it and for um for people who have have had experienced freedom and and wholeness and healing in that area to be leading the conversation rather than um that just really horrifying industry.

So

Lisa:
Hm.

Annalisa:
Yeah.

Lisa:
And now some people might be like, oh, you know, this topic why is it so bad? It's just looking It's not dangerous. I just can you speak to that?

Annalisa:
Yeah, I mean that's definitely a whole can of worms. Um pornography is for so many reasons incredibly destructive. Um I mean, just to name a few things, I mean, a lot of people are introduced to it at very early ages, um, oftentimes accidentally.

Um, and I don't know that the number keeps going down, but the average age of exposure is very, very young, sometimes around like kindergarten age, um, probably a lot younger now with just the access that um, pretty much every child has to the internet, um, with like smartphones and stuff. And it really is just I mean the human mind and spirit is just not designed to consume content like that. Um and it's just so it's such a twisted version of um of what God designed sexuality to be and it if it informs um people's worldview, how they see other people.

Um How they interact with people, how they engage with like their own romantic partners. Um it's just there's just so many, it kind of covers every base of how it affects people's lives, um, because it's such a um kind of body, soul, and spirit type of addictive type of um content to consume. So um so I would say, you know, to people who don't understand its harms, um It really just kind of teaches sexuality in a way that um can lead to people um endorsing and being okay with like abusive behavior, um dehumanizing people, like participating in acts that are you know, like unthinkable, um, even at super early ages, um, which is one of the reasons that it's so harmful, I I believe, is because so many consumers start at such an early age So pornography, therefore, is I would say almost entirely the sex education for most people, um, because that's really where they're experiencing any type of exposure to sexuality um is through.

It's a big quote. Yeah. It's really and honestly it's um I and I mean here's another reason that it's that it's pretty harmful um beyond the scope of just our personal lives.

Um but studies have shown um that pornography is A lot of it is non-consensual. Um, a lot of it contains um underage people, um I there, I mean, we can dive into all this, but I've been pretty involved in kind of the conversation with legislation and um And pretty much just every type of angle you can come at, like taking this industry down, I've been just really passionate about it. So I've seen kind of the progression of um understanding the connection that pornography has to human trafficking.

Um massive, massive, massive connection Um and even like the New York Times released an article, I think, in twenty twenty, um, that talked about how many children were essentially being like filmed in pornography and the largest um Porn site, I think it was called the article is called The Children of Pornhub. And the largest porn site called Pornhub overnight after that article was released about basically how a lot of pornography is non-consensual. contains like like a lot of minors, um and is really like connected to trafficking.

Um Pornhub took down eighty percent of their content overnight. Um, it was like ten million v videos, um, just because they knew that Like I can't compromise comprehend ten million anything.

Lisa:
No, I know, yeah.

Annalisa:
And that's just on one site. 80% of one site is was 10 million videos and that's just one of countless sites Um yeah, so I think I think understanding that not only does porn like harm you as an individual in consuming it, how it affects your brain chemistry, your relationships, just the connection to body dysmorphia, like um depression, like just mental health in general, but then also understanding that the industry is essentially this like multi-billion dollar industry is essentially profiting oftentimes off of like the like sometimes the rape of children. Um and so I think I think it's more harmful than just our own experience of it. It's actually the industry itself is pure evil and it's a massive industry that's affecting lots of lives and um yeah and is hurting a lot of people. So

Lisa:
So Annalisa, you are obviously passionate about this. Why? Can you let's rewind and uh just jump into some of your story. Why I, you know, are you passionate because

Annalisa:
Yeah, yeah. So I have kind of an interesting story. Um I was raised in a Christian home um that kind of had some difficult dynamics to it.

Um my mom was incredibly sick. Um And which I don't know if I've told you about this, but my mom was like miraculously healed recently. This is just kind of a sidebar.

But she is like a Totally brand new person. It's like she's living for the first time. That's been a long time.

Yeah, yeah. Now she's like fully herself again, which is a miracle. Wow.

So awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So awesome. Anyway, um, but but yeah, my mom was really um we actually found out last year that she had had hydrocephalus like my whole childhood, like really bad.

Um, and she had Lyme's disease and she also um was she was on disability for depression because my dad was quite abusive um to her and she just kind of was unable to really do anything. Um and then my dad was um like I mean I just I love him to death. I think I think that it's it's such a It's such a complex thing because it's like we're all just doing the best we can with what we've been given and um there's just this element of brokenness in the world that we live in that's really inescapable.

And um that kind of presented itself in my dad in um It just being a really difficult go growing up. Um, there was a lot of infidelity in my parents' marriage. And my dad had his own um pornography addiction um that I think kind of fueled his um pretty intense like anger that he had um and would express towards us Um, so it was kind of a my home growing up was pretty volatile, abusive, just kind of scary, just kind of confusing because we were also at church on Sunday, so I was like What's that about?

Like I'm, you know, I was so Right. Not that I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, not yeah.

And so I was just kind of like Who is this? Like, it sounds like Jesus is kind of the guy telling my dad how to live his life, and I am really not. Enjoying how that's gone.

Wow, right. It was just confusing and I honestly hadn't ever really that I remember ever really been explained like about the hope of Jesus growing up. It was more so just kind of the um like kind of going through the motions of of you know being a church going family.

Um So one of my first experience, my first encounter with porn for myself, um, was I was six years old and it's kind of a it's almost like a cliche story because so many people have it. But I had a neighbor, um, who had come over to play and she was I think about my age two. Um and she came over and we went into my parents' room and she saw that there was a computer in there.

And she somehow just, it felt like in an in a blink of an eye, she just showed me gay pornography, six years old, and I was like. I was scar I obvious I mean you can't even imagine like at that age.

Lisa:
I was just I was confused.

Annalisa:
I was scared. I was like, what are they doing to like I don't I was just like turn it off. I she was just like, oh it's funny, isn't it?

And I was like No, I'm terrified. Like, I don't want to see that, you know? And so that was my first exposure.

And then I think that that kind of like cracked open the like, what even is sexuality? What even how do I it just kind of open that world to me, um, and which I just, you know, don't think that that age is really the correct developmental moment to be thinking about those things. So I was I just had a lot of confusion and then that kind of juxtaposed if my dad's own like sex addiction was just a difficult thing to I was just like No one's telling me how to view this correctly.

All I'm seeing is these perversions of it, but I don't know their perversions because it's just my experience, and I'm just a little girl just looking to the world around me to teach me about life. And so I just kind of naively was just like, I guess this is what that is. And um so then kind of fast forward my Parents got divorced, um, kind of in like a an emergency.

To spare all the details, my mom found evidence of another infidelity, and she just was like even if the kids and I have to be homeless, like we just can't stay here. Um, so then we kind of sought refuge in We lived with my grandparents in Arkansas. And yeah, we just kind of we packed up a minivan and like we were all just kind of so disheveled.

Um it was my mom and my brother who's my only sibling and I And we got there and I was just like, whoa. Like I was eleven um at that time. So It's like it was like a perfect storm for me to be fully aware of what I was going through, but really not have the emotional wherewithal to understand.

how to process it. Um and I certainly didn't have any kind of um like present healthy voices helping me walk through it. I just kind of had my own like

Lisa:
I just had to cope however I s you know, just with whatever I could find. The adults in your life were having to deal with stuff on their own and make their own way through everything going on. So yeah.

Wow. That's a lot on you to be walking through like just uh uh whether it's the sexuality stuff you talked about, you know, and just trying to learn in life. No one's telling me about this.

And um and then uh the strand of moving, you know, that upheaval and you know, your parents not being together and just a mom who wasn't feeling well. So that's a lot of mess, you know, going on for totally yeah. So you're eleven and Yeah.

Annalisa:
You moved, how did that go then? Yeah, I mean it was kind of s it was such a whirlwind. I just I remember being 'Cause I I mean I grew up in a pretty abusive environment, so I was grateful to be out of that.

But I was kind of left in the aftermath of like Okay, what do I do now with like I don't know who I am. No one's ever told me what I'm worth. I've never like I was just I mean, and you're kind of at that age, you're kind of starting to be like What's the world?

Why are we here? Who am I? Like, what's the point?

What do I want to do when I grow up? You know, you're kind of grappling with all those kind of existential questions. So I had that kind of on top.

Right. You know, all of this pain. It was kind of like this lens of like just insurmountable pain that I was processing like the most important questions with.

Um and so I I was honestly just like so tormented. I was like, I especially with my with my relationship with my dad was really tricky because I kind of I guess I kind of subconsciously like concluded that my value as a woman, I looked to my dad to find out what my value as a woman was, and according to his you know, his kind of practices in life, uh my value was, you know, essentially my my what I could provide sexually, um, because that's how he saw women And so, um, yeah, so I kind of right off the bat, I don't even remember, it was all such a such a blur, um, but I I don't remember the exact like how the events unfolded, but I remember pretty quickly just being like, oh yeah, I remember my friend showing me pornography. That's the thing that my dad loves so much.

Let's check it out, see if it'll, you know, kind of soothe the pain a little bit. And so I and all this time, I mean, I was just deep in a pit of self-hatred. Um So tormented.

I was self-harming almost every day. I was so just despaired of life, honestly. And and Elisa, just for Some people who might not be familiar with self-harm.

Yeah. Yeah. W how d how does how did that play out for you?

Yeah, I mean, I um pretty much I mean it's kinda trigger warning, it's kinda dark, but um Yeah. But I I pretty much how it looked for me was I would just go into my bathroom after school and f anything sharp I could find I would just cut my arms. I would like um just like hit myself, pull my hair out.

I was just tormented. I was just like and it almost was like a It I almost felt in retrospect I'm almost like I could I could feel like now that my dad's not here to abuse me, someone's got to, type of thing. My dad was never physically abusive, but it was that kind of like just he was a very had a very like destructive type of way of interacting.

Um and so I I feel like I kind of took over that role. Yeah, and so that kind of became my my self-soothing routine with self-harm and pornography pretty much on a daily basis. And um Yeah.

And then it started to affect how I I started to really like. I was like, wow, this is really all I'm ever gonna be good for. And I need to learn how to become Like whatever that is, so that I can since that's all I'm ever gonna be wanted for, I've gotta be, you know, I've gotta be someone's number one pick.

And that was what I realized was kind of my Um, my deep wound with my father was that I never felt like I would ever be his first pick. If I like pornography and infidelity would always be it would always take place over me. And so I kind of always had this like, I've just gotta be the most desirable.

I've gotta be the, you know, and I mean I'm 11 thinking these thoughts. Like, no, I was I was like I was like participating in spelling bees and like, you know, like I like I was just a kid and I was just like, how can I be the most sexually available and like desirable that I could be. And so I started it affected my even just my view of myself so much because like pornography displays this impossible standard um for you know what women should be and I actually was reading this study um earlier about this um scientist who he did this um he did this study where Basically he he did it with butterflies and he had these male butterflies um essentially be put in the same place as these fake butterflies that were a lot more colorful than just the regular female butterflies.

And it said that they were a lot more active with the fake ones that were like way more colorful and beautiful. And that when the females were reintroduced, they were like not It was like their interaction with them was so much less than it was when they all they had was just, you know, regular butterflies. And so I feel like that kind of You know, it's like that's kind of what porn does is it creates this like standard and that's why I feel like it I you know, one of the many reasons it ruins relationships is because and it ruins your ability to have a healthy, you know, romantic relationship because you just have this idea of of what it should be.

And then when you find out it's not that, um, then it's incredibly disappointing.

Lisa:
And one of those It's a fake colorful butterfly.

Annalisa:
Totally. Yeah. Wow.

And and not only that, but it's oftentimes um I mean the things that that take place I mean, praise God I haven't watched porn in about a decade, probably more than that. No, probably like twelve, thirteen years. So I I'm not up to speed on all this stuff.

Um well that's good. Thank God. Thank God.

Um but um But one thing that's fascinating to me is that um Cornhub actually releases statistics every year, which is such a strange I don't understand why they do it, but I'm grateful in a way that they do it um because they'll release things such as you know like who are the top users, how many hours were watched collectively, what are the most searched like like titles for videos, what are the most popular videos, and you would be horrified beyond belief at how much people are searching for minors and abuse Racism, incest. It's like the top of like what people are searching for is not consensual male-female married you no one's looking for that. Everyone is looking for this because pornography it affects your brain the way that drugs do.

Right. So it affects your Yeah, so it affects your your dopamine receptors once it's kind of the same the same concept is like the more you have it, the more you need. And the way that that since, you know, it's not like you can, you know, like a substance, you can just take more of the substance with pornography you have to essentially people oftentimes the type of content they're consuming gets more um tends to get more violent more kind of just like Really just yeah.

Just I mean, you can imagine. I hope you don't even take the time to try to imagine, but it's horrifying the things that people are consuming. And then that becomes a standard.

And I began to experience that in my own life as I was, you know, quickly after the divorce, I was kind of just given myself away to any guy who would give me the time of day and the things that they would do to me and try to do to me, I'm like In retrospect, I'm like, you shh probably should have been arrested for that. Like, I mean, they would do horrifying things to me. And Every time I was like, I knew it was because they saw it in corn.

It wasn't because they came up with it. It's because they saw it in corn and that was the thing that they wanted and they would perform those things and not even it the it wasn't even like they thought it was unusual because their s sex ed was pornography and therefore what they saw they just assumed you know They assumed it was normal.

Lisa:
So And if no one else is speaking into that of total how God made sex to be enjoyed, you know Yeah. Then you're I I really uh think that's a very astute observation you said earlier and and tied into now of that's their the sex education that people are getting because a lot of people you just don't want to talk about it. You know.

Like it came uh I I think one of the first times uh Rick ended up talking to one of our sons was when we were um having a Bible story and it was about David and Bathsheba. No way. We're like, oh man, we weren't smart enough to skip that one But you know the Bible is full of real people, real lives, and real issues, and so but you g you can give age appropriate as a parent, you know, to a child, not the whole field, but you know, incremental knowledge along the way.

Definitely. But like you're saying, yours was not incremental. You saw something right off the bat.

Yep the guys who you know, m uh uh you were involved with and thing, you know, their sex education was from elsewhere. So I think that's a really I've never quite thought of it that way. And honestly, I've never thought of topics.

You know, you to me I guess I just don't know that much and to know the um you know, you think it's a certain thing, but like you said, some of the things uh you know, topics get more violent and um uh you know, against people due to their ethnicity even or m you know who they are and so wow that it's very interesting they even released information like that I would think. That's kind of surprising to me. But um so okay, you're eleven.

You're trying to find your way in all this. And there's a strand that I I wanted to mention that you you talked about, you know, your your dad and just kinda um his emphasis in his life of his focus and you felt like you would not be first, you know, that treasured feeling. And I cannot help but think of some of my favorite words in the Bible are in Zephaniah three, seventeen.

And Zephaniah is just a fun word to say too it's like and but um but literally it's talking about how God treasures us. He like dances over us, sings over us. And I wish I could have told you that at age eleven.

Yeah. You know, and said Annalisa just You're treasured, you're valuable. And um and because a lot of times that dad figure is, we begin thinking, like you even said, okay, well, my dad must be learning from Jesus.

You know, a church because then he's acting like this when that is the furthest thing from what God would say, you know, sex is a beautiful thing. And, you know, the way he made it and all. So it's interesting because that the way you saw your dad, so many people then think, well God must be that way then.

Annalisa:
Totally.

Lisa:
And He's not that heavenly father. When we choose to have a relationship with him, it's so different. He is our heavenly father and a good father.

And I remember hearing you sing years ago a song I uh called singing about you know, how God is a good, good father. And I remember thinking at the time how beautiful that was because of some of your backstory. Right.

So I so you're eleven Still f trying to find your way. Take us along here. This is sad right now.

This is hard to hear is some of this, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalisa:
Yeah. So um so I was kind of still in that I was I was very um You know that verse in Ecclesiastes that says that he has put eternity within the heart of man? I kind of was always like suspected that.

I was kind of always like. There's no way I'm just here to pay my bills and then die and then like what's this all why are we all here and what's this all for? You know, I was kind of always asking those questions and I I really I noticed that a lot of my um kind of self-medicating ways that I was living, such as like frequent pornography consumption was really just kind of that um a search for like could this be it?

Like is the like, you know, I I didn't know that I was I was what I was longing for was was like true intimacy and like being fully known and fully loved and being treasured and um I was searching for it and the most like like opposite version of that, the most counterfeit version of that. Um, and I came to find like, wow, this really is not like This isn't accomplishing anything of anything. It's wounding me.

And I kind of in the midst of that, I was maybe like 13 And I went to a um friend invited me to a First Baptist youth group in this in our little tiny town in Arkansas. And I went because of the invitation of free pizza And um free food. Can you imagine how many people are gonna be in heaven because of little Caesar that you cooked?

Um that's funny. But yeah, I mean I'll be one of them. Um but yeah, I I just went and that was kind of the first time that I had heard about God treasuring me and that God um God wanted to give and not take from me.

And that was kind of such a foreign concept for me because my perception of God was was I'm just waiting for you to tell me the next thing you're mad at me for, or I'm just like trying to read your mind about how who you want me to be and how you want me to live and I know I'll never be enough, so then I'll always be ashamed and then I You know, just this constant out the thoughts that a lot of people deal with who really don't understand the like the heart of the gospel, who just kind of have this idea of God as just this angry guy. And um that was my first experience um hearing I actually heard Matthew 10 where um Or Matthew eleven, I don't remember. Um, where Jesus says, Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden and I'll give you rest.

Lisa:
Wow.

Annalisa:
And I was so heavy laden. I was so weary. And I was like He wants to what?

Like what? And then like the songs that night were just about the love of God. And I I just remember in that moment going.

. . I remember consciously thinking, I the search is over.

Like I I am I don't need to look anywhere else. Like this this is what I was made for. This is what I'm alive for.

And not even like Like this is this is the path for me, and I think I'll try this out, but like this is this is it. Like this is it, and I want the world to know and I could just feel the Lord beginning this healing and just cleansing of my heart and um instilling in me identity where I had really tried to stuff that void with um with value found everywhere but in the Lord. And um yeah, that kind of really began my journey of understanding just my value to the Lord and um and how much he left me in the power of the gospel.

So

Lisa:
You know, I just sit here and I'm like, I feel like that night just hearing you say it and seeing your expression, your countenance, your face, I'm like I feel like you got a big hug. Yes. That night almost.

Yes. Uh uh just the way you do and three pizza. Yeah.

But I I I love that because you needed that. Annalisa at that age just needed someone, you needed that hope. You know, some Wow.

And what a thinker you have been throughout your life. You know, just uh you even questioning is this going to be what fills this and looking for things to fill that hole in our heart, you know, that's made for, you know, made for something more. Yeah.

That only only God can fill. So okay, you Uh you found some hope that night. Uh um I'm guessing everything isn't just magically perfect then.

Totally, yeah. We know God, it's not perfect. Yeah, yeah.

Annalisa:
Which I think that that's such a um such a beautiful thing to bring up because it really is like everyone's story is so different. And I kind of had a um I had s I had reached such a point of I can't do this anymore. Nothing's working.

I just don't like what what really is it? Like what am I here for? And what's really gonna satisfy me?

That really when I when I heard about the love of Jesus, it was such a kind of miraculous turnaround for me. It wasn't perfect at all, but I just remember even like my It was just like things just kind of had no like you just start to see that it's it's almost like everything else is black and white and Jesus is color, you know, and you're just like you're just like why Like, why go back to the, I don't know. Like, I think um one of the verses I was thinking about um is one of my favorite verses, Psalm 16.

Um 11 that says in your presence is fullness of joy at your right hand or pleasures forevermore. And that was kind of my experience was I was like Oh, the pleasure I've been searching for, and the the intimacy, the joy, the hope, the love, the feeling cherished, the belonging. I've met the man who has all of that at like with absolute unending measure.

And so so I honestly I wouldn't say I mean I know some people's stories like I got saved and then I just still couldn't kick all the things. And for me, I mean, it wasn't a like a immediate turnaround, but I was just kind of like I just I was looking in the wrong places and then I found the right place and I just I just didn't need to go back to the the wrong place, you know And obviously I had imperfect moments, but I just didn't, you know. I just knew I was I think I think I was so resolute about it, um, because I had been searching so hard for so long.

Um And then that kind of was coupled with as I started to learn about um I started to kind of r like reflect on how pornography affected my family and then how it affected my life and I just started to kind of look into like w this is such a like this is kind of taking over my generation because I was kind of in the that Jordan and I were kind of in that generation that were like um In like middle school we didn't have smartphones, but then by high school we kind of did. So we kind of were like the last generation that didn't like we were never iPad toddlers, you know. Right, right.

Like we just didn't have those at that point. Um, so then as the progression happens and kind of every kid just has a screen whenever they want, I was just like Horn is taking over. Like it's like it's no longer really doesn't seem like there's a question of like do you watch it?

It's kind of like What kind do you watch? How often do you watch? You know?

And so I just started to, you know, look into it and then very quickly I started to see the connection that it had to trafficking and um just kind of how evil the industry was And that kind of further put like a I could I can't participate in this. On my worst day, I just there's no way I'm gonna I can't stomach knowing that I'm potentially watching someone literally get like raped right now. Can't do it.

And um yeah, so so that yeah. So that was kind of a a quick journey of just like um like kind of like a clean breakup of I was just like, I'm either in or I'm out, and and this I can't be in and justify this being in my life, you know?

Lisa:
Wow, that that's a lot in there. And you know, it is really true that, you know, I know um I've heard someone uh my age where they walked away from they they had there was a group of of uh I think like middle school boys and they someone said, Look what I brought from home and it was a magazine. And that that one guy, the story that I'm familiar with turned around and walked away.

They didn't know what it was, but they're like, this doesn't seem good. Like just because it's kind of they're like, ooh, you know, just kind of that when people are like, oh the whatever. And Yeah Uh, and it was different.

It was in I you know, I think then from you know, it would have been uh pornography would have been more in certain places, but you're right. Then all of a sudden there's a generation where we have phones to stay in touch, but the internet's right there. And I actually have heard some stories where people they literally take the internet part off their phone when they've when they're like, I don't want to have the possibility.

of watching pornography again when they've said I don't want to. Um and so mm uh you know I'm like, whoa, that's extreme to like take the internet off. Like how do you find where you're gonna pull over for a restaurant while traveling or you know, things like that So but I I fully respect that that decision.

That's that's a a um, you know, practical thought that has helped them, but So you are passionate about saying, hey, I like you were exposed to this at a young age, at six years old. And like you said, a lot of times it's accidental. It was accidental for you.

So what are some uh like what are some practical tips even for a family, um, a parent? Or even a child, you know, I kind of want to look at the different things, but a child isn't necessarily listening to this, but uh, you know, what are some things that can kind of you know, just some thoughts from you on all that.

Annalisa:
Yeah, of course. Um, I mean there's there's lots of things I would say. I think I think coming to term with the fact that if you are a parent and you have a child, um That like sexuality is a part of how God has designed us and it's a p it's a God-given thing. And so I feel like sometimes it's kind of like Well, I don't I don't know totally because I'm not a parent, but it almost is like parents don't want to acknowledge that their kids are gonna def you know their sexuality is gonna develop So it's almost like let's not talk like if we don't talk about it then it's not even there. I don't even want to think about it.

Lisa:
Um that's how they were born to begin with was because Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Rick and I joke, we're like, well, how did that happen? Exactly. And yet then we don't want to talk about it.

That's so funny.

Annalisa:
Um yeah, so I think just like like it starts in the home and and pornography and just I would say the larger just kind of what I call like pornified culture, you know, not always just directly porn sites, but like movies and social media, it's just kind of everywhere. Um, it's gonna inform your children. We just live in a world where it's kind of inescapable unless you wanna like you know, live on an island in the middle of nowhere with no internet and never talk to anyone ever again.

Um this kind of possibility of that I know it sounds kinda nice honestly Um but so I would just say like the conversation just like has to happen and creating a safe environment for your kids to to talk about what they're experiencing um with their friends, what they're what they're seeing, what they're hearing, and kind of talking about. Unfortunately the conversation is becoming a necessity at younger ages. So I think that just the age appropriate bringing it up and um and just having it be an open conversation.

And I think that people are starting to understand that like Believers really should be leading the conversation in in teaching healthy sexuality because you know like we like We've been given the model, like like God has given us the model of healthy sexuality. And so um so being able to teach that is so important in the home. Um another thing that I would say, I mean, there's definitely practicals, um, a couple of resources that I really love.

Um one of them is an organization called Fight the New Drug They talk a lot, they educate a lot just about the effects of pornography, what it does to your brain. Just that helped me a lot in the You know, 'cause cause there is like the, you know, like the website blockers and stuff like that. But I think getting to the deeper heart issue of of understanding how harmful it is, um, and what the industry is like and stuff like that really helped me be motivated to just, you know not participate.

Um there are definitely um like like um software that you can like put on your phone. I think like Covenant Eyes is one of them that I've heard a lot about. I think there might be a couple more Um and yeah, I think just just being in community, being in a community of people where you can really bring um all of your stuff and um And, you know, like in a biblical way, and like, um, I know the book of James says, confess your sins to one another, pray for one another, and you'll be healed.

And I think the purpose of confession, according to that verse, seems to be healing, not shame. Like it's never, you know, like confession is always for the purpose of becoming more whole and more um close to Jesus. So I feel like having a group of safe people that you can be accountable to and um and just open the conversation and and and share like where you're at with I think is really massive.

One practical thing that I um that I am praying is going to be coming into effect soon. Um to make a long story longer, there is this Supreme Court case that is about to be um It's actually about to be decided this month. Um, but I got to be oh, another organization that I love is called Exodus Cry.

They primarily um they primarily bring like awareness to like the world of human trafficking. They've been doing a lot of things with like legislation for pornography and stuff recently as well. Um they cover a lot of stuff.

They're just incredible, incredible people

Lisa:
Um I have to say personally I feel really badly I have not really made the connection between pornography and human trafficking. I it's just something I haven't really thought of. Yeah.

And so that's that's really something to hear about that. So thank you for even raising my awareness with that. Totally.

Yeah.

Annalisa:
I would say if you want to learn more about that, Exodus Cry is um would be a massive resource. They did a whole campaign called Trafficking Hub, where they were essentially exposing um like how a lot of a lot of pornography, especially on Corn Hub, is in fact trafficking. Um which yeah. And then that ended up having massive repercussions on, you know, like corn sites taking things down, a bunch of major um Like credit card companies made it impossible to use their cards on those sites.

Lisa:
Oh wow.

Annalisa:
Just some really big breakthroughs happened because of that. Um but one of the things that Exodus Cry has been doing is um because When you think about like people are just like, oh, don't you, you know, you just want to like, if you give your kid a phone, just make sure that there's a porn blocker thing on it. And That's a a great thing, but also it's like when we were at this Supreme Court case essentially determining if it's constitutional to have age verification laws put in place so that you'll be legally required to verify your age through a third party in order to access any website with 30% or more pornographic content on it

Lisa:
Wow, I'm trying to track what you just said. So verify your age through a third party. I don't even understand what yeah like how that would

Annalisa:
play out. Totally, yeah. So it's so it's technically not legal for minors to view pornography, but right, right.

But what they the way they enforce that is click here if you're 18 or older. And then that's it. So essentially with age verification laws, what they would be doing is you would have to verify your identity um through a third party and you know the technology is all in place for it to be safe and you know um so that they're not like they're not they're not keeping your information, they're dumping it as soon as they verify your at your identity Um, but you have to verify if you're 18 or older to access those sites.

Um and so the there's been, I think at this point, 19 states that have enacted age verification laws and they've seen pornography usage go down dramatically, um, which is incredible, but they one of the states was um was considering putting that in that legislation and it was Texas and um they essentially came up with this whole case that it's against the First Amendment and it's not constitutional to have age verification laws for minors to access corn, which is totally like what? It's illegal, so what anyway, they're just, you know, it's completely unfounded argument. But when we were we were um we got asked by Exodus Cry because I'm gonna be in a documentary with Exodus Cry about um how pornography affects women, which is incredible, like such a huge honor.

Because Exodus Cry is like the leading like the sexual exploitation industry documentary, like their they've released some films like there's their one of their most famous ones is called Nefarious and it kind of explains human trafficking and that's where a lot of people kind of got their initial introduction to what um trafficking was. Um so we're gonna do this documentary and then they asked the girls who are um gonna be a part of the documentary if they would come to Washington DC for this court case of Texas saying that it's not constitutional to have age verification laws. Um, and so we gave s um some speeches in front of the Supreme Court as at the press conference before the oral arguments for that case.

Lisa:
Did you share some of your story?

Annalisa:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was awesome. And right before I went up this was like one of the greatest moments of my life Right before I went up, um, someone leaned over to me and was like, Hey, the CEO of Pornhub is standing right behind you.

And I was like, he's about to hear my speech. It was awesome. Yeah, it was so cool.

Wow.

Lisa:
Did you happen to share like I can't help but think if there had been something in place like that Mm-hmm. Your neighbor, friend, who came over and exposed you to clicked a few buttons on the computer, she would not have been able to do that and you would not have Totally exposed at that point.

Annalisa:
Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of my that was kind of my punchline because I had um I talked in my speech about how I had punchline. I was like I was like, well, my you know, when I I kind of explained to my dad when I was like maybe seventeen or something, I kind of said, Hey, here's the effect of of everything that happened, here's how my life kind of played out and how this destruction was brought into my life.

And he all he had to say to me afterwards was, And no one was there to protect you? And I was like Oh. Nope.

And so in my speech I was like, we have it, we have an opportunity to legally protect these children Um because and what they were saying in the oral arguments, um, which kind of brings me back to like the you know, having porn blockers on phones, it's a great thing, but it's like though in the oral arguments they were saying like But like what what middle aged person do you know is more tech savvy than their 15 year old? Like like there's ways around all of that. And if and if you just put you know if you just put a like a filter on your on your teenager's phone, like there's just gonna be ways that they can access it.

Um and I mean they even brought up how I think it's Pinterest where it's like you can put blockers on all of your like internet apps But if you go on Pinterest, you can access the internet um like in a way that isn't connected to those filters. So you can just go on Pinterest. open a site and then find porn there.

Lisa:
Um It really seems like where there's a will, there's a way. Totally, yeah. Yeah.

And like I hand my phone to my like my you know Gen Z aged young you know my children because they're good with that. sort of thing or I call them or text them or something, you know, yeah because they're not always there to hand it to. But like a lot of you know adults do that.

Hey can you help me with this? So yeah. Wow.

So yeah to find end around Wow. I have a question I want to jump back to also. When you said um how d talked about you being involved in this documentary, how do you feel like porn affects women?

Annalisa:
Oh I mean, massively. I think it's um it's a very taboo topic because people kind of think of corn as like the guy's issue Um so pornography just with women is very rarely talked about. Um so I think that there's just very little support for women who are experiencing that.

Um but then kind of on the other hand it's just the way it informs women's sexuality and kind of their worth as a woman as a sexual object essentially. Um It is, yeah, it's just very alarming how women are depicted and how women are kind of taught to behave and perform and what they are to accept. And um I mean, I was I was like taught that being abused sexually was like something I should love and enjoy.

Um, I was taught that by pornography. So I think that um yeah, I mean it just it greatly affects women from everything from just their own body image to um, you know, their self-worth and what they believe they're useful for in this life and Yeah, it's just really, really destructive.

Lisa:
A lot of layers. And Yeah. How I know you're not a man, but with you you you have been involved in just even helping in this area.

Uh what's your take on how pornography affects men? Like you kind of said that earlier when Um, I know you can't speak for a ma'am, but even when you were eleven and involved and twelve years old, you know, and seeing the impact you experienced personally of those young men who had experienced pornography and how that played out affecting you then. But what's your take on that even?

Annalisa:
Yeah, I think it kind of informs the the narrative that um masculinity is kind of like equal to someone's like sexual um I guess like, I don't know if you've it's kind of vulgar, but like the body count, it's kind of like how, you know, how what how many women, how much you know, how many girls can you get? And like it kind of becomes this like badge of honor um for for men to just kind of have um kind of meaningless sexual encounters with people. Um culture.

Totally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So um so I think that's one of the saddest things is that when you look at how at God's original design for men and masculinity. It's such a beautiful, beautiful thing. And I feel like pornography is one of the primary things that distorts it because it just fuels um so many like pornography is kind of like the starting point of so many um like expressions of like the connection that it has to like anger issues and infidelity and depression and it really kind of just like it kind of just it not only does pornography kind of deh dehumanize women, it also in a in another way dehumanizes men because it kind of makes them out to be just these sex consumers that all they all they can do is just, you know, that's kind of all they they're just almost like, yeah, they're just kind of taught that that's what their lot in life is.

Um in kind of in a similar but different way to women. Um yeah, and it just the the identity of the God-given identity that um the God-purposed men to have is so opposite of how pornography affects the the minds and hearts of men. Um so Yeah, and it's really connected to um yeah, how men treat women, how they the connection to it just can really escalate behavior to be um, you know, sometimes harmful and it just is so sad that it's consumed so many people.

Lisa:
So Annalisa, how in the world do you not view men as on the take, yeah, uh on uh you know, not faithful, yeah. Just a a lot of the things you said, the opposite of what you know, masculinity is and um I how do you do that? How what would you say to someone right now who's like, you know what I'm done with men, I don't want this. I've walked a similar path as in Elisa. I d I how do you How how do you help your heart with that?

Annalisa:
Yeah, I mean I like all I can really do is just say, like, God, when you dreamed up this person what was in your heart for how you created him and like what I even just looking through the Bible at at men um in their in their moments of just being so alive in how God designed them, they're they're like just fierce protectors and leaders and like tenderhearted and um and care deeply for their families and um and are creative and hardworking and you know, you just look at all these beautiful, beautiful qualities of like when a when a man truly is as he was designed, it's like one of the most unstoppable things And so when I when I have that temptation, I mean obviously like unfortunately it's not like every man is functioning fully in how God designed him to be. And, you know, s it's not, you know, some people are not You know, necessarily it's not like I just open myself up to anybody and believe the at best all the time about everyone. But I think um I think just asking the Lord like like Who is this person to you and what what do they mean to you and what was your original design for for who they are? Um And yeah, like like godly masculinity is such a beautiful thing and um That's a powerful perspective. Yeah.

Lisa:
Like think of what I you know and see someone Trying to say, okay, how would God view this person almost in a way? And yeah. Cause I n I know it's real easy. There's a lot of songs out there even about, you know, um just kind of having a hard heart to You know, guys are or uh just because of the hurt, it's fully understandable because the hurt is very real and it leads to not great situations, how you view yourself and self-harm, so many things that you talked about, or looking for love in different places and um and that value. So wow, what would you tell eleven year old Annalisa?

Annalisa:
I would say um I would just say that everything that you're searching for can only be found in Jesus and He's not like You think he is and he's full of love and um and he's the source of of the healing and the wholeness and the satisfaction that you've been craving your whole life. Um, and that he he isn't the one who caused the pain to happen to me. And um yeah, and that there's abundant life available in him.

Lisa:
Wow, that's pretty powerful. Oh man. And I I something that really jumps out to me in that is you saying he's not who you think he is.

That eleven year old Dina Lisa thought Jesus was different because of how he had been represented to you. But people don't always represent Jesus for who he authentically is. And um Wow, what would you tell someone right now walking through this?

They're like, they're in the middle of self-harm or relationship after relationship and they're hurting, you know, how uh what would you say to someone with all that? I would say um that

Annalisa:
the heart of God is not indifferent towards you and uh is he draws near to the brokenhearted and it is his It is his joy and his pleasure and his desire to come close to those who are hurting and who are in need of him. And That the Holy Spirit, one of the names of the Holy Spirit, is the helper, and he loves to help. He loves when we meet him and he loves to give us everything we need.

Um And there's just there's hope and in Jesus like freedom is completely available and and is possible and so is healing and not only on the surface of, you know The things you do or don't do changing, but at the core level of you know, what are you actually searching for? Why are you doing it in the first place Like those answers and that that satisfaction you're looking for is really only found in Jesus. Um, and he wants to give himself to you.

He's not far off. He's not um trying to be hard to find. He's he made himself available and through the cross and through the gospel You can have access to him, you can have as much of him as you want, and you can be a friend of God forever and be healed and whole.

So

Lisa:
Wow, lots of words of hope there. And what what would you say to someone they're like, big deal, you know, this isn't affecting me and pornography, like it helps my relationships or I d uh you know, it's What would you say to, you know, someone who's just like, what is the big deal with all this?

Annalisa:
Yeah. I would just I would probably look at them like this and be like Really? Really?

Because I just I just deep down Like people who are who are in the depths of such a destructive um practice and like way of life and thinking, like They're not at peace. They're not truly fulfilled. They know it.

Even if even if they're in denial, like they know that they haven't um that they're not whole and that that what they're what they're going to it may be working kind of like the analogy of like, you know, junk food will keep your stomach full, but it'll probably kill you eventually. So like you know, like if you're looking for nourishment in the wrong places, like I mean, even people who are just kind of like just kind of want to take the the kind of spiritual emotional side out of it and just be like, don't really care about that. I like to do it.

The studies are really clear that pornography use and just the, you know the sexualization of people and the dehumanization of people through um through kind of what the pornified culture has taught us and how to view people is incredibly destructive to your brain cells, to your own sexual health. to your relationships of people, it's just very clear that it's a super destructive um thing to consume. So I would say I don't think I don't think anyone's really fooling themselves if they think their life is great with tons of porn in it.

So Wow.

Lisa:
Well and you know, I read an article. I might not get it quite right, but it was um couple or so years ago it was actually a public high school that w I had um a some discussion group with students and talking about um pornography and how it affects people and just some of the things you're talking about, the rewiring the brain, how it led them to begin to view women um uh di very differently and even uh violently or some of the anger things you talked about and there was Um and this was a public high school, just they're they were discussing this issue, and I thought it was very interesting just to hear some of the scientific things that they were discussing. But then also from a young person's perspective of how it had affected them emotionally.

And why they were choosing not to uh pursue you know, having pornography be a part of their life because they saw the impact it was beginning. to have on them. And I thought that was just very intriguing.

I literally have heard that uh scientifically sometimes they say Um, it can rewire the brain like cocaine when you use something like that. I don't know if that's a you know, I heard that from someone else m with who they've walked through that in their marriage, you know, even just kind of the rewiring and yeah.

Annalisa:
Yeah, yeah, Fight the New Drug has a lot of those um studies out that actually explain all of that. Um and yeah, they explain like how our dopamine receptors work. how we you know once our dopamine receptor is activated then we'll kind of do anything we can to get more of that thing as fast as we can.

Um, and so it is addictive and pornography not only is addictive, but it's unlike any other substance because it's like in the essence of cocaine, it's like once you're out of cocaine You're not high anymore, but with pornography, you can just be like, oh, I'm visualizing that video I saw yesterday, and you can almost relive the high in your imagination. And so it's kind of like and it's in everyone's pocket, you just need internet access. So much it's almost entirely free.

I mean, people almost never pay for porn. Um, you know, the average, you know, teenager doesn't doesn't really pay for porn. I mean, and then there's I mean the whole talk of sites like OnlyFans and it's really just kind of a horrible horrible situation of how accessible it is.

Lisa:
What is OnlyFans?

Annalisa:
Is that a pornography site then or Um Essentially, from what I understand, I probably need to research it more because of how passionate I am about this, but I haven't wanted to research it because I just it's so disgusting. Right. But from what I understand it's essentially like you can kind of like subscribe to certain users that'll make like pornographic content Like I see.

So it's free. I never thought that one isn't free. That one you kind of like have to pay.

I guess you like pay for kind of what you want. Um And which is just oh yeah, just a horrible thing. But a lot of people a lot of like social media influencers have OnlyFans because people are a fan of their social media and want to see a little bit more.

So then You know? Oh and it also is a way for like to make money.

Lisa:
So it's like a lot of people Right. I never realize that. I feel badly. I haven't really No, I know.

Annalisa:
I honestly don't understand where you're just don't want to like I just don't even want to dive into it. But yeah, that's a really big thing right now.

Lisa:
So well and that's totally understandable. So I I what are some final thoughts you would just share with someone? They're like, I was exposed when I was young. I you know, uh what are some things you would even just share to someone right now? Yeah, I mean I would just say like

Annalisa:
Like I would just remind people there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and um and condemnation is not from God um and God wants to in his kindness bring, you know, the verse like his kindness leads us to repentance, like in his love wants to bring freedom in your life. Um And 'cause I just I know the shame cycle of you especially as a Christian, it's like you watch porn you're super ashamed. You kinda put yourself in condemnation jail for three days and then You feel like you've done your time and can go back to God, and then you just the rest the cycle repeats and um it's just a much larger issue than what you do or don't do, and God is after making your heart whole, not making you a non-porn consumer.

You know, he's more concerned with with feeling you from the inside out. Um So I would just say there's there's hope for that and there's like communities all over the place. If you're not plugged into like a local like body of believers to just walk with you through all of that, then like I would encourage you to and um And there really is like freedom is totally possible.

Um and it's available like in the Lord, and there's yeah, just lots of resources out there that um that can help you just get free so that your life can be abundant.

Lisa:
Wow. Well and I love how you've shared community has been so important and some of these other helps and things and just I so appreciate your passion even. You're a great wound, you know, when you were six and just all the different strands of, you know, whatever it is of your parents' divorce uh knowing porn was big to your dad and uh and seeing that and even that kind of gave you a connection with him it seemed you said early on and part of why you got inter and you know interested in that And uh just all the things, but now you're passionate about saying, Hey, can we try to not have this exposed to Yeah, you know, minors.

So thank you for your passion. Just and I know you pour into people's lives in other ways too, just sharing the hope that you have found that, you know, if anyone is looking for that kind of hope and that kind of relationship with God, you've heard Annalisa talk about it. It's uh it it is her hope, as you can tell, and it's not uh just a pat answer of, you know, yay, everything's better and life is hunky dory, but it really is a daily hope of when That sin you talked about earlier, that middle letter I, choosing to live life my way, not God's way.

And my way has consequences, and God's way does not. And if that's something that's a relationship you're interested in, all you have to do is turn to God and say, hey, You're my only hope. I'm sorry for this stuff.

I don't want to drive my car anymore. I want you to drive God and I'm done living my way. I want to live your way.

And and Alisa, I just thank you for even sharing your hope with that. And how that relationship, just finding what your heart was longing for in that relationship. Yeah.

With Jesus is powerful. Oh my goodness.

Annalisa:
The gospel is powerful.

Lisa:
Uh well, and now your life is just I love seeing just your joy and your radiance and just all the things. So love you, Lisa. Wow. Oh love you. Thank you for being here, big hearts to you. And uh any final thoughts

Annalisa:
Um, you know, I always say Jesus is better than anyone ever told you. And there's just so much hope in him, and the gospel is truly power. Wow.

Lisa:
Wow. Annalisa, thank you for being here and just sharing so much hope through all this and being open and honest. with your story and of course friend I really hope that you'll come back and join us next time on Thrive in the Mess