Bombshell Loss: Picking Up the Pieces After Losing Your Young Wife, with Lisa’s friend, Tom! | Thrive In The Mess | Hutchcraft Ministries

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. So hey friend, welcome to Thrive in the Mess and I am excited to have a friend of mine on here.

His name is Tom and we are taking a look at when you lose your spouse. and he lost his wife in his twenties. And we're gonna kinda take a deep l dive and look at his journey with that and his story.

And Tom, I am just so thankful You are here at Thrive in the Mess and welcome and so happy to have you here.

Tom:
Great to be here. And um I've been a big fan of your families for really my whole adult life. Ron Hutchcraft, your dad, is an inspiration to me. And uh man, I've just benefited from his years of ministry.

Lisa:
Oh wow. Thanks, Tom. That's I you know my dad it but a lot of people ask, is he the same at home as he is?

you know, in public and I'm like, yes, but the humor is still just as bad. It's just like still crazy. So But yes, and and his love of Jesus and just and he's eva he's been through loss.

It was a loss a loss in his family when he was a child that um really his family looked for hope and answers and found a relationship with God in the middle of all that. So but jumping back to you, so okay, you are I you know, in your twenties, I guess when you met your first wife, you've uh I we're not gonna do spoilers yet of what life is like now. But let's jump back to where are you at in your twenties?

You Meet a young woman, you want to get married, just kind of tell us some of your story.

Tom:
It's actually nineteen when I met Amy, who is my first wife, and Her conversion to the Lord was the beginning of my ministry, faith to faith. She was the first convert of my ministry.

Lisa:
Oh, so you actually helped shared about Jesus with her and she came to know Wow. So like she caught your eye. You must have Caught her eye. How did you end up?

Tom:
And I was interning at a small church in Mansfield, Connecticut. And during that summer they they were they were trying to fashion me into a minister of their m tradition. And they didn't like how outreach focused I was.

And so they wanted me to do a certain amount of office hours and sermon prep and some just things nobody was in this building so it was really frustrating for me. So Faith to Faith actually started with a chat room. I I got put in this office and so I ran a phone line across the church and put it into that office and I started coding our what would be our first website, the Donic 2001.

And I built a chat application and started doing online Bible study for people when I was supposed to be studying. And just do evangelism online.

Lisa:
You know what? Okay, so Tom, I want to jump back a little further. We're gonna jump back to Amy here, but I wanna jump back so you're talking about this um ministry that you started, but why that? Like why even Jesus to begin with? Because I know he was not always someone who you wanted to connect with so why Jesus even I was I was a pretty pretty angry young man as a teenager and so as I

Tom:
Um as I was going through my teen years, just my rebellion and my anger towards my parents and towards God and towards everyone else who was bullying me. uh it it manifested in all kinds of different ways. And so it was a pretty dramatic conversion to Jesus.

But once I realized how real he was, I was all in and I had actually dropped out of high school. And so I re-enrolled in high school, but I only needed two credits to graduate. So I would preach the gospel for six periods a day.

In the scafeteria and let a bunch of my friends that I used to get in trouble with to the Lord. Oh wow So I went in pretty hard and as as a 16-year-old. So by the time I was nineteen and I founded Faith to Faith, I I are like I didn't really know Evangelist, what like I was trying to discover what it meant to be an evangelist, but I just knew I would not be happy behind a pulpit every Sunday, and I also would not be happy stuck in an office doing office hours or even church office hours was not exciting to me.

I I felt like I needed to go. And I would tell people who were as lost as I was about Jesus.

Lisa:
So So that early job description of office hours and sermon prep, you were like big

Tom:
I mean they were trying to discipline me into it and I was trying to find ways to follow the rules and still do what I felt like uh my part to do. So Amy, my first wife, actually became a Christian through corresponding with me on the internet, writing letters back. And this is it was not fast back then.

It was pretty slow. So we would we would Eventually it was America Online and that got faster. But it started off with long Bible study notes, emails, and then the chat application, and we'd go back and forth and study scriptures and By the end of that summer, you know, she'd made a decision to follow Christ, gone to university, and was like, man, I I really want to meet The person who led me to Jesus Christ.

So she actually turned up here in the United States because she was from England. She was studying to be a scientist And so for it was a very strange thing for a a weird, passionate American young guy to lead someone who was scientifically minded from England to Christ. Nobody could believe our story.

Wow. It's happened.

Lisa:
Wow. Well, and a lot of times people don't think uh you know, that believing what God says in the Bible and science match up, but I feel like they really go together beautifully. Like I I just look even outside around me or even taking like biology in college.

I'm not the science major. But but I love learning it because I feel like it's a study of all the stuff God made. So I just I it's mind blowing.

So I love that she was pursuing that. Wow. So

Tom:
You need her. The British university system pretty hostile against um religion in general. And you know Amy would try and build her faith into her work.

And one time she got called out by the professor in front of the whole lecture theater. She'd given some kind of um some kind of l presentation and kind of try to weave her God's story into it. And the the the professor actually said to her, hey, the religion College is across campus, and if you want to be part of that, then maybe you should change your majors because it has no place in this scientific college.

So interesting. Yeah, right off the bat, it was very hostile for her to be become a Christian. Um, but um It was a funny thing.

Um there was some DVD series that had come out around that time. I can't remember the name of it, but it was it was supposed to be a little apologetic, but also kind of went into archaeology and stuff like that. I'd kind of mention this, turned her on to it, she was working through that.

And we'd come across like a Talking about dinosaurs. And I said, Well, I think dinosaurs could be in the Bible. Let's look at the book of Job and read about some of these creatures God is describing to Job.

And I said, does this sound like any kind of animals we have today? And and that was where the colonel of faith was born. Like she was like, well, if dinosaurs can be in the Bible, then maybe there isn't a contradiction.

With science, you know, this idea that you had. And that really kind of opened like it allowed her mind to like stop fighting so that her heart could receive what God wanted to do for.

Lisa:
Wow. Because they do go they really beautifully go together. It's amazing. Even you know, you think of uh stars are talked about in the Bible, just all the things, you know. It just it's everything. It's amazing, but

Tom:
So she comes over, you meet, and Yeah, and this is pre-9-11, so you could go right up to the gate to pick someone up. Right.

Lisa:
And so I knew That's like a an old romantic comedy.

Tom:
I knew that this person was coming to visit. I knew it was a girl. I I didn't know anything about her.

I really didn't know what she looked like in any kind of meaningful way. So she gets off the plane and I'm like, holy cow, this is a beautiful lady. And then I was like super nervous and I was like, oh my gosh, what did I what did I just commit to?

So like it It kind of reversed on me and we're I'm driving down the road. I I actually remember getting pulled over by a police officer because I kept looking over

Lisa:
There's a dating tip right there for like and and

Tom:
And apparently it looked like I was drunk driving, but I was I was so nervous and I just kept looking at her. I couldn't believe that this is who came off the plate. I was like, oh my gosh. So super awkward first moments together because of that, but it's a laugh now thinking about it.

Lisa:
Oh I love that so much. Because nowadays everything is like there's the video included and stuff. So ever And the the it wasn't like this was a dating app or like there's the swiping.

This was literally i you know, you a total chat, just chat. No picture with it, you know. So wow, I love that.

So dating tip, don't get pulled over when you meet a pretty girl. That's awesome. So Okay, she's here to visit and stuff and uh you know something happened because you ended up dating.

Tom:
This is th this has gotta be it, you know? And I I did all the things to like try and ask the Lord, hey, is this my wife? you know, laying out all kinds of weird fleeces trying to get God to confirm this thing.

But at the end of the day, uh, it was like she shared her feelings with for me. I it was easy to do that on that time where we were together. And then she went back to England and I thought, oh man.

How's this how's this gonna happen? And she said, well, why don't you come to England and see what my life is like? And I I thought, uh I can't go there unless God uses me.

Like, England has to invite me to come. Like, I'm not gonna come for a girl. So she went and joined a local church that fall.

Um in betwe you know, so she came at Christmas, so she'd already joined the local church in the fall, and she had presented in such a way that the church thought she was a seasoned Christian. made her the church treasurer. She's only been a Christian for like three months.

Wow. Uh so she goes back to the pastor and advocates for me to come as a guest preacher and to get to invite me to come to England. So I get this Email from a pastor in England asking me if I'd like to come and preach at the University of Kent.

And I was like Well wow wow what a sign from God that I should pursue this woman. Well it worked out I I showed up in England with a ring, so yeah a sign from the Lord that that was it. Wow.

Went, I preached my first meetings As faith to faith and and proposed. So we only knew each other for barely barely a year when that happened. So Wow.

Lisa:
But when you know, you know. I love that. And Tom, I'm still getting a little hung up on I'm picturing now, you know, the movie scene.

She's walking off the you know, the r out of the what do they call it, that not gang. Yeah, like the jet bridge kind of jet jet way or whatever. Yes, jet bridge.

like coming out and like the fans are blowing her hair Oh my gosh.

Tom:
It wasn't quite like that, but I I definitely was like Oh like I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't know I'd led this beautiful woman to Christ, you know?

Lisa:
Well and how amazing all the pieces that God brought together. I love how He does that with bringing people together. So okay, did she say yes?

Tom:
She did, but I mean, it's not in the way that I had planned in my mind, because we both had kind of We've we figured out how to do like a day trip to Paris and so I was like, oh that's like a romantic place to propose. We can go up the Eiffel Tower, blah blah blah. And as soon as I got to England, I don't know if I was young.

I mean, I was nineteen, she was nineteen. We got into a massive fight and like Oh no. Almost ended the relationship right there on the spot and I was like, well I'll just go sleep in the airport till my my plane comes Which would have been like 10 days. That's not realistic.

But it was like But that's how you feel. The fighting had happened and she had left the room and I was all by myself. I realized that I was panicking 'Cause I was about to commit my whole life to this woman.

And so I was poking all day, just poking, poking, poking, trying to figure out If I was making the biggest mistake of my life. And once I'd realized that that's what I was doing, I was like, well, I need to repent right now. And then I got down on my knee and I Part of the makeup was proposing.

And that was the only time we ever really fought like that. Was just just on the front end, me figuring out If I was doing the right thing. And once I was in, I was in.

So um But that's a what a great example.

Lisa:
That's kind of a nice takeaway of, you know, when something like that comes up in a relationship, marriage or any relationship, of really saying, okay, God What do I do? I'm sorry for this and that. And then like going to the person and apologizing. So what a beautiful thing, even that You figured that out before launching into marriage. Some people never figure that out, you know?

Tom:
Uh when we went to Paris That weekend it was a mess because I got like the stomach flu. So it would have been a disaster to propose That weekend. So it all ended up working out.

Lisa:
Now I'm picturing the movie scene with that.

Tom:
Oh no! Information, but I'm just terrible.

Lisa:
God had a different plow. So she said yes and then you guys ended up getting married and did she move here? Did you move there?

Tom:
How did that work? She You know, even going through school was difficult for me. I wanted to be out preaching the gospel.

It was a chore to really study and apply myself. And in fact, I don't think I would have passed biology if she didn't coach me through it over the phone. But um she refused to marry me unless I graduated.

So we were engaged the whole of my college career and we'd see each other on breaks. And I and she f she held the position that if I didn't care enough to get my degree, then she wouldn't she wouldn't go through with the marriage. So she really held me to the fire.

I graduated. And then she had one more year left 'cause she'd started university a little late. And so she um She had one more year left.

So I enrolled at the same university, did my ma master's degree at the University of Kent, and it was like my year in missions. So we married here in these states and then we moved to England together for that first year of marriage.

Lisa:
Okay, wow. So okay, you're married, life is going on, so you're maybe how old now? Twenty-two, twenty-one?

Tom:
Twenty well we moved back to the States at twenty-three

Lisa:
Okay.

Tom:
And we pretty much were following university um pathways. So, you know, graduated from University of Kent in England. And then we moved back to um West Virginia area where I'd went to undergrad because that was the only other place other than home that I had connections.

And so I was gonna build faith to faith in the Middle Ohio Valley. and um and then she'd get a job at a lab and um and so that's what we did. I went and served at a small local church in the Middle High Valley and we started a college ministry.

And yeah, 23 years old. So so we'd been together a few years. We've been married a year by the time we settled in the US.

Lisa:
So fast forward, she did she get sick at a certain point?

Tom:
Yeah, so it it was that very first night, college night. We just advertised we were gonna do it. Um, I was basically um leveraging my relationship at my undergrad to invite kids down to to my church and we were going to build like this student ministry or college ministry out of that.

Lisa:
Encouraging young people, which you have spent your whole life doing.

Tom:
The very first night and She had developed like this like winking problem where she kept winking and I said, well, maybe you just need some glasses. So we made an appointment for her to go to be eye doctor. that night, b right before college night.

And so the the appointment's taking forever. I'm very impatient. I remember just pacing around the room going, man, this is taking way too long.

We've got big things. We've got plans. We've got stuff to do.

Hurry this thing up and then the doctor comes out to see me and says, Hey, she's gonna need some very big glasses. And I was like, That's not true. She's had perfect vision her whole life.

How do you go from perfect vision to needing, you know Coke bottles for glasses, you know. And she and she and he says, Well, I could dilate her pupils and look a little deeper. It's gonna take a few more minutes and she won't be able to drive.

We're gonna really open them up and look and see what's going on there. And so I was like, Oh okay, if you think we need to do that. And he opened up her pupils and looked deeply in and came out um in a panic and said, Something's against your optic nerve and you guys go the ER right now.

So college ministry never I mean, maybe it did and just w I wasn't part of it. I don't know. But went straight to the ER and our life was never the same.

Lisa:
Oh my goodness. Wow. You know, and that's a part of exams.

And I just never thought about that. It's just kind of more of an inconvenience of okay, get dilated, and then you I I think that's where you have to wear the little things when you leave or whatever, you know, so you don't let too much light in or whatever. But wow, that is really quick and fast.

So the ER would Did you learn? Oh that's really shocking.

Tom:
Yeah, yeah. So it was a 23-year-old kid um in the ER all night. They did those early CAT scans.

Um I always make jokes. when I'm nervous and I remember s the doctor coming in, it's a very serious moment. There's maybe a few family friends near us and we're waiting for hours and hours and the general ER CAT scan comes back and the doctor says I have your results and I said Yes, but I'd like to ask you, do you still use actual cats when you perform this PET scan?

This cat's can or have you upgraded to actual technology? He was very offended. He laughed.

I was laughing at my own joke. Oh golly. Um so it didn't hit.

It was like a way to make a joke like that. Um and then he be That's coping.

Lisa:
It's a way to cope though, too, in the middle. Right.

Tom:
Hey, we can see a tumor in her like we're we don't know if we want to call her tumor tumor. We see a mask, size of a golf ball. She's gonna need to have more tests.

So from ER, we're now being checked into the full Malone hospital so she can have tests throughout the night um and into the next days. And so So what happens next is after the PET scan, I think it was a PET scan or whatever those additional stands, we'd now had been assigned an actual neurosurgeon that was going to look at these tests and I remember him coming to collect me and he takes me down into the basement of the hospital and into this computer room and now You know, high-tech today sounds different than high-tech back then, but I just remember as a young person going into a room with computer screens all over the wall and it's my wife's head on those screens. Right.

And it's rotating. And he uses the mouse to like rotate and take off layers and show me. He said, actually, this thing is more like the size of a softball or grapefruit.

And um and he's like, we're gonna have to do emergency surgery. But the problem is, is your wife is too young and beautiful for my conscience to allow me to do this surgery. So he said, I'm not taking this case.

I'm just telling you as a courtesy. I'm gonna give you a card of a friend that you can call and you're I'm off the case. I'm very sorry.

You can give him a call and maybe you can set something up with him. So he essentially just leaves me as a 23-year-old guy alone with this information, including the fact that she has six months to live. And so and says, sorry, like like I'm just gonna leave it to you to tell her and Oh and he left me in the room and just walked this and so I I Like kind of like wandered back out into the hall, wandered back toward the elevator, and when I got to the elevator, I hit the button to go back up to the top floor where she was and Then I hit the stop button and the elevator comes to a halt and I just crash on the ground.

Like I just I just slumped down in the in the elevator and I'm like thinking Like, oh my god, what am I gonna do? Oh my god, what am I gonna do? Like oh like it felt like um a piano had just kind of been dropped on my chest, but at the same time that like there was this weight on me, I did sense that like the piano was in a net and the full weight of the piano wasn't being allowed to drop.

Um, I did sense that. Like it was still heavy though. Like it was heavy enough for me to know that it was gonna kill me.

But also just enough relief to know that there was something holding this piano up from obliterating me, if that makes sense. So I'm laying there like slumped in the Elevator going, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do?

And then it was almost like the Holy Spirit, it's not like God spoke audibly or anything, but just in my mind, like I heard like my question reflects back to me. Almost like someone else was in there saying, like, yes, Tom, what what are you gonna do? And in that moment, it was like It was a choice.

Like God was giving me a choice to decide if I was going to step into everything that was going to come next and represent Him. So, you know, it I pulled myself together and I was like, right, what am I gonna do? Well, Lord, I'm gonna follow you.

And so at that time what that meant was I'm gonna go up there, take the bull by the horns, tell Amy black and white what I was told, because that's the way she likes to hear things. British people like black and white, so I'm gonna walk into that room. Tell her exactly what he said, pick up the phone, call, this other referral Pick up the phone, call the church and get the prayer chain going and be a man about it, you know.

So so That's it. I walked in the room. I mean, in some ways it was like the coldest hug I'd ever given s someone, you know And it's my wife, but it was like it was like uh I didn't know how to emotionally comfort her with this information like doctor says you're gonna die in six months.

I I I don't know what to tell you. Like I didn't even know how to give her the comfort of the Lord and I hug her and it's like a very cold hug from my side. She's starts crying immediately, and I like, oh my God.

And And then she blurts out, great, now you're gonna meet someone even better than me and have a whole beautiful family without me. And you're gonna get everything you ever want, and I'm just gonna die. And I was like, oh my god.

Well, what do you even say? Like I didn't even know what to I don't remember I don't remember what was said after that.

Lisa:
I just remember That's a lot for you guys.

Tom:
Twenty three and twenty three years old

Lisa:
Yep. That's a lot to process.

Tom:
It was a lot.

Lisa:
Like that's a lot for any age, but that's so young.

Tom:
Yep. And and and and she did not die in six months. She actually died in four years, and it was the most brutal painful things to watch someone go through.

Lisa:
And you had only been married how long at this point?

Tom:
Yeah. Uh a year.

Lisa:
A year? So it was literally happy anniversary and then not long after you get this huge and I can't even comprehend a softball size anything in our head because like our head isn't that big, you know. It's I y I just don't even know. So did she have the surgery? Did she have to have treatments and she had so you know

Tom:
On one hand, I'm saying she lived four years and she was um and she was suffering more than I've ever witnessed anybody ever suffer. Like I think about how the Lord suffered, but other than that, I think about how Amy suffered and she suffered a lot. Like it was unbelievable.

And then My sufferings probably don't compare to any of this stuff, but like I also suffered as the witness to the suffering because there's nothing I could do about it other than just be present. And and it was four years. And I even though it was a brutal four years, she lived those four years probably because of the way that I was serving her and caring for her.

Um But so she outlived the prognosis. There was definitely some windows of good time in those four years, but on the other side of that, there was also 11 brain surgeries, radiation, chemo, experimental treatments. New treatments that were being developed.

We tried all kinds of stuff. And you know, we'd lost our jobs and careers. We've been maxed out on medical, millions of dollars of debt.

I mean, pretty much every bad thing you could. Thing that could happen, you know, happen to us during that time period.

Lisa:
So it was like a snowball effect. You get the medical, you get the financial, you get the No career, uh no work, like how do you juggle all that, right?

Tom:
And actually, just to kind of bring you into the story, I actually met your husband and and and um your dad Kind of the halfway point at the Billy Graham Center. I'd had lunch with them. I thought it was pretty cool, but I ended up leaving early, leaving the cove early.

Because she needed another emergency brain surgery. So that is actually how I left the cove, was to go tend to her again. And every time I would leave, something like that would happen.

So I was very tied to her during that four years. Um, obviously tied through marriage, but but there was always a circumstance in which I was needed to swoop in. And sign something, power of attorney, or and even when it looked like things were okay, something would happen to just mess it all up.

Right. I really thought by this point in time I'd met the Luis Palau Association and I really thought the dream was that I would become a festival director and move cities around the world and get involved with big events, share the gospel. And I just organized my first After her initial diagnosis and first surgery, I went to Poland and uh organized uh an affinity evangelistic effort in the city of Woodsch that was super, super um successful just watching God's Spirit pour down on a city that was not very Christian.

Nowadays it's a very Christian city, but back in those days not so Christian.

Lisa:
And I I wanna throw out there for anyone who's like, okay, well to me that word evangelism or evangel like that's a not cool word, but what it means basically is just sharing the good news. And basically like for Tom, you said you uh d you know, your life you were angry, you were m you know, being bullied, you had issues with God, issues with your parents and And all kinds of things like that going on, but then you found hope in a relationship with Jesus. And That's that's and then you were like, I gotta go tell other people and that's what that good news is. So just to throw that out there, that's what that means.

Tom:
I'd love to take that further too because when Someone's life is on the line and you're really considering eternity and you're considering Is there any more to life than this? then it it's not just like the joy and the hope that I'm found in Jesus. It's like, no, this is actually all that I have.

And even if I never experience another day of joy on this planet again, I will hold on for dear life to this cross, because it is my only hope that something is going to be reconciled in this whole miserable existence that I watched play out over those four years. This is it. Jesus, if you never do another good thing for Amy and I, the cross is enough.

And I will die on that hill. I will die on that hill. I will punch, I will fight, I will kick, and I will take as many people as I can with me away from the kingdom of darkness.

In response to this brutality that happened to us, it was like, God, I am I am surrendered to you, and I will go out in the blaze of glory if it means. Punching Staten in the teeth for taking my beautiful bride of my youth away from me.

Lisa:
Wow.

Tom:
So so that is sort of the in the shape of the first 15 or so years of my Christianity. So sometimes people when they encounter me and they understand or or they move close to the ministry. Um I I'm in a new stage of life now and new stage with family and stuff, but Especially during those sick years all the way through the single years.

It was a very militant style approach to how I served Christ. Um You were passionate. This this defined you was a lot of there was just a lot of adversity to overcome, you know.

And I'm not saying that I overcame it in my own strength, but I think Sometimes when men are challenged to put on their big boy pants, we're not always ready to do it, but I think God has made men meek. in that that when we we accept a responsibility, um not that we should serve Christ only solely out of duty, you know, because like he desires mercy, not sacrifice, right? But But but as men, we can sort of pull up our bootstraps and put our hoodie up and head down into the wind and set a course of motion and just kind of kind of lead.

And so I really I really embraced um I r I just really embraced my role in recognizing that I I introduced Amy to Christ And it's not that I was her savior, but it was very clear that God had called with me to walk this woman right up to eternity's gate and make sure from my end He walked through that that door. Um if that makes any sense.

Lisa:
I I i that is just really powerful. And you When you even entered that, you were sharing the good news with her because you had only heard this good news just like a year or two before.

Tom:
Yes, I'm not sure. A true gospel. I think there was some health and wealth stuff mixed in there.

I think there was some best life ever stuff mixed in there when you come to Christ. Um but that comes later. Like we learned really helped clear that stuff out and make the gospel real for me, like what it really means to to not just embrace Jesus as Savior, but as as Lord as well.

He's not just the guy, give your life to Christ now do whatever you want and you want. But you submit your life and you give your life back to him as a ransom, um, you know, for for what he's just done on the cross and And then he can do it with it what he likes. And if he wants it to go up in smoke so that he can get glory, then so be it, you know, and to be at peace with that.

And so obviously I would never want that to happen to someone I love. I'd prefer it happened to me, but What can I do? I can't do anything about her situation, but I can preach that gospel and I can I can offer that hope to others who are suffering and know that Um this world isn't where it's at, you know, and that God has so much more for us if we just if we just surrender.

Lisa:
Wow. You know, as I hear you talk and thank you for going back in time to share all this. I know it's not probably the most fun memories.

Um I think of that moment in the elevator but I'm sensing there are probably other moments like that where you're like, okay God, uh just because it was brutal from what you're saying, watching someone walked through cancer. Sure. Um and also as a man, uh as a human, but as a husband and as as a a a lot of guys want to fix it.

What can I do to fix this

Tom:
Right.

Lisa:
And uh and a and there are times even like when Rick and I are talking, it's like uh this isn't something I need fixed, it's just something I need to have heard, you know, just to have you be there. But you can't fix cancer. You can't fix a a softball thing in your wife's head.

Tom:
And that's not to say God can't heal, because I'm not saying that it doesn't heal and that he he he's not willing to do that. But but sometimes that's not the root the route that I mean, actually to be honest, Amy's healed now. She's looking to be absent with the bodies, to be at home with the Lord.

She is fully healed now. So so we did get the answer to our prayer, but not in the way that I wanted. So I think oftentimes when we don't get exactly what we want, we have temper tantrums with our Heavenly Father and rebel because we didn't get what we want.

And anybody who's preaching the gospel where you get what you want every time. It's just not the gospel. Right.

You know, like we get what's best for us and we get what's good and what's right and what's true. But we don't necessarily get what our flesh desires or even what our human eyes think is right. Not in this life always

Lisa:
That that's similar to the day my mom died and I prayed in the ER, God could you have life come back in her eyes? And he took her home instead that day he did put life in her eyes, but in a different way. But I uh so as a man walking through that, yes, God can heal, but there you served her.

That's kind of a takeaway. Like someone if someone walked through this of, well, this isn't You know, I can't fix this. I can talk to God about it.

I can pray. You talked about that, getting other people praying. You served her.

But how do you walk how did you walk through this without getting angry, but they're I like I'm sure or what did you do when there were those angry moments? What how do you deal with the roller coaster of all the emotions?

Tom:
I mean, all the emotions are all still there. It's just If your life is surrendered to God, like he can redirect stuff. I like I don't know why I didn't get wrapped up in sexual sin, for example, during that time.

Like Like the opportunities to cheat were probably there. The opportunities to check out of the marriage were probably there. I I honestly, it's a long time to not To hold it together.

And I don't think it's because I'm awesome. I really don't. I think God's protected me from myself and my instincts and my flesh. I it's the only thing I could think of because I I'm not that cool.

I'm just not that good. But but the evidence of his presence, like he would profoundly Um he would profoundly make it known that he was with us throughout that process. For example, and not limited to, but this is a big one.

Amy passed away an hour after Good Friday. Um, she had been seeing the Lord in our room for the two weeks leading up to her death. I wasn't seeing anything.

I was really irritated that God would visit her so profoundly and I would not even get a taste of that because I was the one serving. I would be like, good! Like I can't even get like a little glowy thing or anything to like let me know this is all worth it, you know?

But she's over here having full-on encounters and reaching for you. Look, what what is this? But but then he took her an hour after Good Friday and I was scheduled to preach Easter Sunday.

Now For a Christian, Easter is in for us. It is the Super Bowl of Christianity. And to be scheduled to give the gospel that Easter Sunday was wild.

Like It was just wild because number one, Amy's life had been hot dog bund right in between the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Right. And now I'm given the responsibility to tell the public that she's gone during my gospel presentation.

And so it was a moment in time that Even those four years of frustration, like it was almost like the outlet was the next day. And and I don't think I've ever preached the gospel that clearly in my life. I don't ever think I've with so much raw passion and I still meet people to this day that say, Tom, that Sunday, that was the Sunday I came to Christ.

And And and to skip very far ahead years later when I took uh my now wife of ten years this summer, ten years. I took her on a date, she brought me home to bring meet her family, and her father confessed to me that that was the Sunday that he gave his life to. to Christ.

So my future father-in-law was becoming a Christian as my

Lisa:
Wow.

Tom:
First wife is like you can't those only God variables. You cannot if I were to even weave a set of circumstances where I get to win or whatever, I I couldn't have imagined that kind of fruit coming out. And it's not just like, oh, he gave his life to Christ.

Like, he came to church for our our church, Calvary Chapel, for the first time. To make a deal with God because his grandson Ryder had a brain tumor. I think he died of a brain brain tumor.

Died of brain cancer. He comes to deal with God and say, God, I'll trade you. I'll oh And he's hearing a man up front who just lost his wife from brain cancer and says, Forget about this life.

Forget about making deals with God. Like give your life to Christ now. Join us in eternity.

Join Amy and I. We invite you. to give your whole life to Christ. And he did.

And he's a businessman in our community. He's done unbelievable things for the gospel since then. um fueled me to share the gospel in so many ways and ultimately gave me his daughter to marry and continue on in the work.

So like Uh, you know, there there are so many, you know, it's not like happily ever after, because like loss and pain. Um I still think about Amy's family and I go and visit them every chance I can get in England and bring like the good news into that household because Amy was the first Christian in her family. So I as often as I can I go back to the countryside in England.

Um anywhere the mission puts me close, I take a couple days to go down there and to just minister to Amy's sister and her mom and now what would be my nephew and niece. You know, that weren't around when Amy was alive. And just tell stories and we visit the grave and I tell the gospel to the children and And try and stay engaged on that side of the fence while fully recognizing that God has, you know He can make all things to work for good.

This is the scripture, right? For those who love him and are called according to his purposes. So even if the cards are terrible cards You've been dealt me worst cards.

Like he's still like going like there's there's a God story in this. And your dad so big on those God stories, isn't he? Like talking about the God story.

Uh I you can't make this stuff up. You just can't make it up.

Lisa:
It's uh it literally is the only God. And I you know, I love the takeaway you saying of being involved in it's still with Amy's family and I'm sure they so appreciate that because of just the distance I'm sure during some of her walking through you know, cancer and those years and what a beautiful thing. And we did have a spoiler alert about You have a beautiful wife of now ten years.

Happy anniversary early. So and you know, Tom, one thing uh there's um a verse in the Bible that meant a lot to me after losing my mom that I could not help think of. And I actually uh I it's Psalm fifty uh fifty six eight and it says how God keeps track of all our sorrows.

Not some.

Tom:
All.

Lisa:
I love that word all. It's in a lot of places in the Bible. You have collected all my tears in your bottle.

I think it originally said like in your wineskin So like who collects tears? I don't collect my tears. I want to get rid of them, right?

Like wipe them away with a tissue and throw it in the trash. But literally he collects our tears. You have recorded each one in your book.

Like God loves us that much, like the one who threw put the stars and like the sky and he collects something. The I d we can't even count that. How many tears did you cry during that time?

You know, in that elevator, like God wrote every single one down in his book. That's just mind blowing, didn't I? That is mind blowing that he cares that much about us walking through grief and sorrow.

And you know, I jump back to how Jesus walked through grief and sorrow here on earth. He would did not have a perfect life. There's no like you said, the the hand you've been delder no matter what you're like, I'm still following you, Jesus.

I'm with you. And And Jesus walked through that too, so I that was comforting to me in loss also of just how Jesus, you know, who came to earth, walked through that fully God, fully man. But this is just mind-blowing to me that uh God keeps track of all the sorrows.

And it's not just one big sorrow of losing your wife.

Tom:
Mm.

Lisa:
That's a lot of sorrow along the way seeing her walk through treatment I'm sure and whatever you know and God recorded all that. That that's amazing. And you you could have easily said, God, I literally I've been married a year.

Really? My wife has you know, you could have been very bitter for your whole life and instead you were instead was you know, choosing bitterness and anger, like yes, there are those moments in there, but You'd you the day after you're literally pointing people to hope. The hope that you had.

And having your future father-in-law, only God, like literally your future father-in-law hearing what you needed to say that you would not have said in that way and with that fire if Amy hadn't you know, gone to be with Jesus the day before. So wow. Okay, so uh what would you say looking back now to someone to you, Tom, walking through that really rugged stretch, what would you say looking back because there's someone who could be watching this who's walking through that same thing with a spouse or a loved one

Tom:
You know, um, and people have tried to invite me into their stuff when they're going through stuff, and I'm not, to be honest, I'm not super good at the pastoral part of this thing. Um, but what I have learned about grief for sure is grief is something that is not something that happens to you. Grief is something that you make.

And grief is something that it can be very productive in your life. Um, but grief is different for everybody. There's a book that uh I've bought cases and cases of for people called Tear Soup.

It's written like a children's book. Basically it's uh talking about a recipe of healing after you've lost something or someone. So grief can, you know Come in many forms and sizes and kit can happen for a variety of reasons and The one thing that's probably most insulting to someone who's grieving is when you say, I know exactly what you're going through.

Um Uh you know, I'd tell my story about Amy and then I'd get like dozens of divorced people to say, yeah, I lost my wife too. She cheated on me. And I'm like, it's not the same.

It's not the same. Where I lost my my my my kids too in the custody battle and it's like, Yep, you're grieving. You're identifying with me that you're also grieving But when you're when you're grieving, you're making something and nobody no two people like their soup the same way.

Some people like a cold soup, some people like it hot. Here in New England we eat clam chowder and there are three kinds of clam chowder. People in Rhode Island they like it red Well in New England, we like the white stuff.

Even though they're part of New England, they always gotta do their own thing in Rhode Island. And Manhattan has a clear one, right? Manhattan has a clear one Why is it the other way around?

Manhattan's red, Rhode Island's clear.

Lisa:
I think Manhattan Red I like the cr the um white one. I like the New England one.

Tom:
That's the only one that matters really.

Lisa:
Yes. All right. Along with New Jersey pizza, no.

Tom:
But but that's my point is everybody likes things to their taste and when you're making something and it's productive in your life Um it's quite offensive when people try and force feed you their soup that they made to their taste upon you when this is something very close to your heart and something you you have to really work through in in some ways on your own or on your own with the Lord. And if you're doing it with the Lord then he's he's kind of your guide. Um I was able to chal channel my anger into my hatred for sin and for Satan And I I mean a deep hatred for Satan.

So I was able to channel my fury at you know and like make it my mission to snatch like and ask the Lord you know I can almost imagine uh not that I'm as strong as Samson or whatever, but like, you know, he had his strength taken from him and he's, you know, disgraced himself and now the Philistines are parading him around. They've taken his eyes out. His strength is gone and he's just Performing for a bunch of heathens and there and entertainment for them and mocking God.

And he asks God in that final prayer, right? If he can just one last time give his life And be strong one more time so you can take them all down. And he knocks those pillars over and takes them all out.

Like that's I feel like that's how I felt that Mr Sunday. Like Please put the ball in my hands and let me run this ball down the field. If I could ever run this ball down the field, it's gonna happen right now.

I want these slows so bad. I wanna take this from Satan so bad and I wanna make meaning out of this incredible loss that I feel, you know.

Lisa:
So So you were twenty-seven.

Tom:
Twenty-seven when she passed, yep

Lisa:
And I you did. You did take the ball down the field and honestly, Tom, you've been doing that the rest of your life, you know, and I can't help but think of that as so young to walk through such a big loss and not just a loss that was not quick. It was a lot of sacrifice and what would you say to a newly married couple.

You know, you go skipping off into the sunset. Nowadays, Tom Tom, you're younger than I am, but Like nowadays there's such an aesthetic. Everyone I I told Rick I'm amazed every girl has her nails done.

Like at just the timing that she gets engaged nowadays, I was so impressed. My nails were not done. I had a major Finals week that week where I hardly saw.

Tom:
Oh, you see the pre-video. It's like I think I'm getting engaged today. I'm going to buy that like I see these videos. I'm like, you guys are crazy.

Lisa:
I barely was awake. I literally fought to stay awake at the date Rick took me to And I know a day he was gonna ask me to marry him that night. So yeah, my Instagram picture would have been like photos were in those days.

Tom:
Like think about this. When we took photos, Lisa We would take photos and send them away. We'd go to CBS and send our film away and we wouldn't even know what's on that camera roll till it came back.

Some of those photos were just weird and dumb and people looking away from the camera or walking off the while you're taking the photo and you wouldn't even know until you got your film back. And these kids, they staged the whole thing. Every single photo is so so perfect.

Lisa:
We had a different aesthetic. We did.

Tom:
Whatever is, is. And then we pick the best word.

Lisa:
So what do you say to someone today who and honestly any age But uh, you know, they have a great aesthetic, they're just getting married, and you know, what do you say? Because you're kinda like, oh yay. We go skipping off into the sunset.

But sometimes it's hard. Marriage can be hard. There's disagreements.

There's conflict. But but what do you say like even then with having the perspective of Life can be life is short.

Tom:
Yeah.

Lisa:
But life really was short as a couple.

Tom:
For sure. I mean, I'm a stepdad now to my latest wife, Summer, and her two kids. Um, Chandler and Emma and Emma is also gotten married young and has a baby young and when she was getting ready to get married Summerized sat her at the table and we were like, listen, young lady, life is very hard, and you're going to either get each other's back and Take care of each other or life is gonna be like life is hard, but you choose your hard.

You know what I'm saying? Like you choose how this hard is gonna play out in your life. And you can either make it incredibly productive and fruitful or you can allow it to just ruin you and make you miserable, you know.

So um I'm at a different stage of life now, you know, I'm a little more settled and God's allowed me to reclaim some stuff that was lost. This new stage of life. And even just getting to walk it out long enough to see God.

Um Allow some wins to happen, even with the losses and the hard hardship. Like it's all of it together. It's like a beautiful mess.

Like there's bad stuff in there, there's good stuff in there. But that's how that's part of the gift of life that you get to experience that full spectrum of being a human being, you know? And so when I look at these young people, um I and even the second time around, going through the whole getting married again Thinking any part of me that thought I was some Jedi master of marriage as I went into the second marriage I realized, well, if I did one marriage for seven years, well, then that's it.

That's all I did. Because the second marriage has nothing to do and doesn't even look like There's some general principles you can carry over, but there are literally no two women alike on this planet. I can't be like, oh, I have a life hack on how I took care of that woman, so I can take care of this woman.

Using those same exact technique. Nope, doesn't work. None of it works.

And I just realized that I I really didn't know very much at all. But but I do know that If Jesus is at the center, you have your best shot at winning. If couples are aligned in that, if they're not aligned in that, it's going to be very hard.

It's going to be very hard. And even when couples are aligned, it can still be very hard, but at least you're not alone in it, you know? I guess.

I guess that's the takeaway And I, you know, there's some Gen Z kids headed to my house right now from Georgia. They've driven all night, 15 hours, making a Mecca up here to hang out with my wife and I this weekend. And I I I feel like uh when I sit with young couples, this this couple got married in the fall.

Um I love I I love to see that idealism and all those dreams and hopes for them all it really what it is is raw potential. You know, like their story hasn't unpacked yet and There will be tough times, and you need to acknowledge that on some level you you're eventually gonna hit some walls and some obstacles and you're gonna have to deal with it. But I I feel renewed when I see myself and them before all the hardship and and truly I benefit from their energy and their passion and their desire to follow God.

And and all I can really do is is is just Try and encourage them to stick with it, you know. Because it will be it will be tough on this side of eternity and they will be challenged. Um and and and trusting that the Holy Spirit's gonna Gonna fashion them and shape them um the way he's doing with me continually.

Right. And that God's gonna be faithful to them the way he's been faithful to me. Mm-hmm.

And to just be faithful in return is really the bottom line, you know.

Lisa:
Wow, lot lots of takeaways in there and Uh Tom, I'm kind of curious, uh what did what was life like between twenty seven and uh five, six years before you met your wife and got married? Like You're married, like it that's like such a special thing. People are like, I you want to find that person to share life with and then suddenly they're gone and you're dealing with grief of you know, w seeing what she went through, but then also the loss of her. And then it's like, what just happened here? And yeah.

Tom:
Yeah. I mean

Lisa:
And what would you say to someone walking through that?

Tom:
Single listen, for me, single years is the worst years. I mean, I did get myself healthy, get myself in shape during that single period. I spent a lot of time memorizing scripture, a lot of time, a lot of sweet time with the Lord, but Um, but I'm a terrible single person.

I'm not like Paul says, I wish every one of you could remain single. I don't think I'm that guy. I don't think I can do it.

Um, I outwardly process and having a spouse to do that with is so helpful to me just to just uh get through the day and understand what's going on in my own head. So single years where I'm just alone with my own thoughts was was very difficult. Very, very difficult.

Made a lot of mistakes. I didn't really ever take a break from ministry, because I enjoy ministry, but I never Fully checked out to grieve. Like I went harder in.

I was like, man, I've been scooped up in a house for four years. I want to go now. And the problem with that was I was also grieving still, so I upset a lot of people during those years And I upset so many people, Lisa.

I probably I don't know if I say this on a podcast, but I will. I will. I don't care.

All my life's an open book anyway. So I used to upset people at such a high rate during that time period that I had carried around gift cards in my pocket And sometimes at the beginning of a meeting I'd slide someone a gift card in advance for the offense they were probably gonna take in the meeting I'd say look up probably gonna upset you today, so here's a gift card. It's terrible, it's terrible.

Lisa:
You know But here's the thing though. What a beautiful thing in a way, because you were aware you didn't have anyone to process that with at that moment, like you said. But I like How many people just go around and like we say things that I don't know they might be inappropriate, offensive, whatever, but there's nothing, no apology, no nothing. And but that's hilarious that you were so self-aware Well that you did that.

Tom:
It's it's funny but like it would be But you soften the blow You start in the blue But I'll I'll tell you right now, this this is my favorite season in this in the sense that Not that there aren't hard parts to come, but that hard part ended. And and now I'm in a position where I get to serve people like your son. Um, with his amazing ministry, how to life and and and I get to really come alongside so many young people in these formative years where they're making these decisions and they're choosing you know, life and partnership and and ministry and trying to reconcile all that.

And most of the time, my best offerings to them is all my bumblings. You know? It's not It's not being a superhero of my own story.

I mean, I know it could be really easy to spin it like that, but in so many ways, it's just It's grace filled with God intervening and stopping me from doing something dumb or God intervening and re-redirecting me before I fall down that hole. Or whatever. Like it's it's God Taking care of me and me bopping around, bopping around, just trying my best to hold on to him.

And so So even when it comes to giving advice to young people, it's like the advice is it's God doing his work on you. Not not that this is how you should do it. Because the best of our efforts is just not good enough.

Like it's not It's not that good. Our ideas are not that good. Our strategies are not that good.

But his way is always the best way, you know, even if it's laced with hardship and Struggle. Wow. You know.

Lisa:
And you're saying all that after years, I think back to that moment in the elevator where you're like You made that choice, okay God, I'm I'm gonna still follow you.

Tom:
Right. It was one choice. I mean, and it was an easy choice to make, but it was a hard choice because then I had to like make it my continual choice.

But that is salvation, isn't it? Like it's an easy yes to say, Jesus, come into my life, take control, save me. But it is a it is a question that we We make that decision, but we have to continually revise our life to that question.

Like, am I still um surrendered to Jesus Christ, do I still accept him today as my Lord and Savior? And am I still willing to follow him whatever he asks me? and forsake this life and cast my worldly crown before his throne and declare that he is worth more and is more than anything that I love, any treasure in this world that I clutch to, like, do I do I actually love him more?

You know

Lisa:
Wow, oh my goodness, Tom, so man uh just really powerful to hear that because that is a daily thing. That's not a Um, you know, even in the Bible when Jesus said, Follow me, that's what he would extend to people and some of these fishermen and one of them Well I was listening to you, I couldn't help but think of Peter. You know, he could fly off the handle, cut off the ear of a of someone because he was so passionate about following Jesus, but he just he kinda had a temper.

He just kinda, you know, did things like, well I'm gonna do but I think of how God even I he he said to Peter, he chose him to walk with him as one of these twelve guys during uh, you know, three years here on earth. And I love that so much because each of those disciples, each of those men who walked with Jesus literally had different personalities. But Peter's always jumps out to me because he just you know, he would fly off the handle.

He's just so real, you know. And we need to know that it's okay for us to be real and say, okay, God, am I really gonna stick with you during this? hard the hard things.

And I just I I love seeing your you chose to follow Jesus at, you know, as a teenager after a lot of hard stuff, but then you still had more hard stuff and But you chose to still walk with him and you easily could have said, God, that's it, I'm out. I d I I don't deserve this, you know?

Tom:
Like it'd be worse. Disciples said, Lord, Lord, where where else can I go? You know. Wow. Again, so much worse to have to do all that without him.

Lisa:
Oh wow. Well Tom, thank you so much for joining us here for uh just uh, you know, sharing of uh parts of your story and I really hope I I believe it's in it'll encourage someone who's walking through something like this, you know, losing a loved one or grief of any kind because the principles are all the same, just to hang on to hang on to God in the middle of all that. But um thank you so much for being here and Friend, I hope you join us next time on Thrive in the Mess, and I hope you're leaving today encouraged