“Empty Arms”: Laura's Story of Infertility and International Adoption

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. We are going to take a look at a topic today of It can be a real struggle for people of not being able to have children and the option of adopting and in particular in particular the option of adopting internationally.

And I have a longtime very dear friend of mine, Laura, who I just love. And I am so thankful she's here today. We've known each other since high school Had lots of conversations sitting on the gym floor during before we would go into gym class, which is very different nowadays it seems.

Back then we were like doing all kinds of like volleyball, then it rotated to something else and then rotated to something else and I felt like we were like hardcore. They were preparing us for the Olympics.

Laura:
If it involved a ball, I got hit in the head with it. I remember French class was more though.

Lisa:
I know. We were in French class and we were Lise and Laure because those are our French names. Yes, so So I just love that you are here.

Thank you for being willing to talk and share your mess, some of your mess. We all have messes, different messes, but this is a mess that affects a lot of people of not being able to have children and um share a little bit about, you know, some of that. Ooh.

Laura:
Um well I was married for ten years and still never pregnant. So it was um becoming excuse me a little more difficult with every passing year. Um in the beginning, you know, I was still in college, didn't necessarily want children, but if they came I would have been thrilled.

And then um still no children, still no children, all my friends having children, teenagers in the Mall having children. Right. Um, it's that kind of thing.

And there is a word for it. I don't know what it is, but when you um, let's say are interested in buying a new Honda You'll suddenly see Hondas everywhere. Right.

Lisa:
Um so I could see were babies everywhere and none of them were my And nowadays like Gen Z says like FOMO, the fear of missing out, like That you were I was missing out.

Laura:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa:
And seeing it everywhere. You're right.

Laura:
Right, right. When you're walking through a mall and seeing a literal sixteen year old pushing a stroller with her boyfriend You're like, she's not equipped to be necessarily a mom at that age. She's doing it, God bless her, but I I have a home, I have a room, I have empty arms.

Right. You know, very empty arms. So um it becomes just difficult.

Um you can remember things and if you're walking through infertility, you know what I'm talking about. Um going to friends' baby showers. And just forcing yourself and just praying that you can get through it.

But one um time the cake literally said, uh, congratulations on becoming a family. Oh and I really not that I've dwelt on the all these years, but well uh when I was really thinking through my journey, just knowing I was going to speaking to you, um that cake came back to me. And I remember how painful thinking I'm not only with no baby, I'm not even a family You know, like what am I right now?

Lisa:
And uh though that's kind of our culture saying that, a perspective, which is hurtful. I think it you know, we don't always think of the words we say and to say that we're we're still a family. I feel like Rick and I were still a family when we were you know, even though you're a couple, you know, and some people are single, you know, for their whole life.

I have an aunt who has been and she's her family. Like we're her extended family and very much her family. But yeah, wow, that must have been rather Painful.

It was at a at a hard time.

Laura:
It wasn't like it was something I saw at a not hard time in my life. So it just added insult to injury in a sense. Um just many of those moments through people who didn't mean it.

It's not like anyone has a poor intention when they're doing things like that. They're celebrating something that should be celebrated. Right.

But when your experience is so removed from that and you're, you know, literally waiting month by month finding out that this special person is still not coming into your life even though, you know, you're hopeful.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Laura:
It's an every month battle.

Lisa:
How did you w walk through that time. Like, did you see God show up? You there are those painful moments.

Did you see God show up in any special ways during those times? Um, that is a really good question. At the same time though, it's real like there's a lot of that incoming and it becomes our you know, like you're saying, every month this is a monthly thing.

It's kind of the way God made us, you know, to see, okay, not here again. Right.

Laura:
Um to have that desire to be a parent is a good thing, you know, because let's face it, being a parent is a hard, hard job.

Lisa:
Yeah. So Um and the Bible talks about it too, literally uh people like Hannah begging God for a child. Yeah. You know, and so This is a story through the ages. Yeah.

Laura:
Sarah, Hannah, um, you know, we have to imagine Elizabeth and um Rachel. Yeah. Um, just so many women who were just crying for children and some of them didn't get them until they were elderly, and I certainly didn't want to be elderly. Please do not give me a baby when I'm ninety, Lord. No. Um it was bad enough that I was like 32 when the family. Um

Lisa:
No one be l would be left alive to come to the baby chair. That's so sad. You know what, but that's part of the thing of like just having joy in the middle and being able to have laughter when it hurts. Right. You know.

Laura:
Right. So And it was you know, obviously I didn't have a whole life of I am a joyful person. Yeah.

I can find joy in any circumstance. I mean I've heard about you. Yes.

Yes. But you know, deep down is there not this huge hole underlying it all, you know, that you're just trying to cover? Yes.

I would say the important lesson that I learned um was trusting God's timing. But more so, I had to learn about idolatry first. Um, I it wasn't really until we were in the process of bringing our first son home And he just was not coming home and there was spoiler alert.

Yeah, spoiler alert. There was no reason for him not to be coming home Paperwise, just looking at the way the world works, there was no reason, but there was. And I had to come to terms with the fact that I had made an idol out of That child out of a child out of being a mom.

I had placed it so high up there in my life that I feel that um it wasn't until I r really recognized it and Just said I'm sorry and had it take some steps back from that that then I finally did become a mom.

Lisa:
Well that is really powerful. And that's not that's one thing, anything that is on the throne of our heart can anything can end up there, a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a child, uh whether it's to have a child or even after we have a child. So

Laura:
Yeah. Wow. We can put our children there pretty easily.

Lisa:
Right. So it's always been or career and yeah, I like it. That's really powerful.

It's almost like that freed you up In a way then. Okay, so now fast forward, no, no, no, that's really powerful. I think that's very, very strong.

But Um, and I'm sorry for what you went through with that because that is very painful and um and it is a great grief for many people. And Uh and there is some hope. You actually looked at international adoption.

Laura:
Yes.

Lisa:
Yep.

Laura:
Um international adoption. was it's not easy now. It certainly was not easy back then.

Lisa:
But um And what led you to that even? Because you're at this point and when were you like, okay, I'm done running through this every month. I wanna do this.

Laura:
Vew km. Excuse my voice. Um I always had a heart for adoption.

Um, there was never a time when I even got tested for fertility. things. Right, right.

Um, I already knew that the hormones and other things would not be great for me. Um I just don't respond to medicine very well. I get a lot of side effects.

I didn't want all that happening to my body. So um I guess by the time we were eight or nine years into marriage, it was just kind of like, okay, this is clearly not maybe something that's happening right now. Maybe it still will, but my heart is still there for adoption and it's just how many more years am I waiting?

You know? Yeah. Um, and then I just kind of watched the stones Turn and make a way and the oceans part and Guatemala was just there.

Wow. Um So that became the country that I was just drawn to um for many reasons, but um It was still not easy.

Lisa:
You know, it is very hard, but it's th it's like the death of a dream and a hope in a way. But yet God opening another door. Yeah. Is that fair to say?

Laura:
I think I would have always wanted to adopt a child either way. Right. Right.

So I don't feel like it was the death of a dream. Right. Um, if I'm going to be completely honest My prayer was always for a child, not really for a pregnancy.

Ooh, that's powerful. I like it. I am really not a great fan of newborns.

The truth comes out pieces later. It was okay that I bypassed some of that. How old were Your children when they came home?

They both came home at about thirteen and a half months old. They were at the buried that was also painful, but

Lisa:
Still beautiful. Because we adopted but from China, our our baby, our daughter. So how old was she when she came up?

She was a year and a week. So okay. Yeah, so we missed her first birth first birthday, first Christmas, Tina.

Yes. Yeah, those kinds of things. So and then we actually celebrated her year and a half birthday.

when we were travelling with some Native American young people and got a huge sheet cake and and she wasn't she had just begun starting to walk. She was still really baby, not a lot of body strength, you know when we first brought her home. But this is your story.

But I know we're we're kind of like tying all this in two because we both did have a heart to adopt and internationally too. So so Guatemala. Okay.

And

Laura:
Um miracle story because essentially um we had to go to what was then called INS uh Immigration and Naturalization Services in Newark, New Jersey. In July of 2001. Oh.

And they said our fingerprints would be completed by September of 2001. Oh no. And then of course on September eleventh, two planes left Newark Airport and did what they did. Um and The IN paperwork but INS was not worrying about adoptive parents.

Right. So our September fingerprints were not back in October, November.

Lisa:
Oh so you're waiting month by month yet again.

Laura:
Yes, we're waiting month by month. Um and the agency that we had originally chosen would not allow us to take um a child You know, to start the process until we had those fingerprints back.

Lisa:
And 'cause it was like background checks and uh I remember all of that. Yeah, fingerprinting. Yes.

We went to dinner and then went to the police still. We're like, we're doing this, baby. Romantic.

And we actually took a picture. We're like getting fingerprinted on our anniversary. We're like, hey, Jesus.

Laura:
It was a definitely not a romantic place in life to go to. It was It wasn't. Um oh wow. They well, so I'll tell that story.

Um So we're in December and there were just a lot of things happening and um it was becoming much more painful. Um And so a friend of mine had said, call this other agency, because they have babies born in the Marshall Islands and they come to Honolulu, so that is not considered an international adoption. You don't need those fade prints So I phoned this agency and I just said to the woman, I'm interested in your Marshall Islands program.

That is all that I can recall saying to her. And she said, that program is ending and honestly very few children are really born there. They're small islands.

It's not like there are hundreds of children born there and shipped to Honolulu. Right. So Um she said it's ending, but if you happen to be interested in a baby boy from Guatemala, that's exactly what I was interested in, the baby boy from Guatemala.

Um, I desperately wanted a boy. Uh that was absolutely first of mind.

Lisa:
And the country.

Laura:
And so it felt very much um God moving and nothing to do with me, which it needed to be. Wow. Because of my idolatry problem. I really needed to know I was not doing this and that God was. Um Wow.

Lisa:
That's a big time showing up of God. And your friend prompting you to even call them and

Laura:
Yeah. Well, so I told her I don't have my international, you know, fingerprinting done. It's I've been waiting since July essentially, but here we are in December.

And she's Said, I have no problem giving you this referral. They're going to come. She said, they're going to come.

And that was so affirming because I started to feel like they weren't going to come. And um they did in January. We had already taken a referral.

Lisa:
So um how amazing though if you hadn't waited, you wouldn't have looked at another option and that's where your son came. And like literally the month after that, like God's timing, like the but then the month after that, then you got them. And and also I loved how God brought someone along.

who wasn't just, no, we gotta check all the boxes. She's like, they will come. How encouraging to have that lady that God plopped her in your life at a moment you really needed that.

Encouragement. I'd I just love that so much. Yeah.

Wow. That's pretty amazing. Yeah.

Ugh, I feel like I'm like Breathing deep, feature deep because I don't I don't I didn't know that part of the story. And this is a thing, like I know parts of story your story, and then But wow, okay, so January.

Laura:
So referral. Right. And then as I told you, it took a long time to get him home.

Um, he should have technically been home by that August. And then not, here goes the waiting game again. September, we're told that we've been through um family court and we have a new birth certificate.

So I'm trying to bring him home for September or October, and then that wasn't happening, and um Yeah, I found out through a very painful conversation that all of the conversations were about some other baby and not mine, that I had been kicked out of family court. and had to do another document which takes at least a month to do and get all the certifications and send him back another month. Um and then Christmas his birthday came and went.

And then Christmas came and went And we moved into a new year, two thousand three, and on January fifteenth, this little child who didn't know anything about America, what it smells like, sounds like, the food. Not a single thing, hopped on a plane, took a plane ride for a whole day with a pretty much total stranger. And uh about, I don't know, 7 30 p. m. was put in my arms and he just grabbed the lapels of my leather jacket and put his head on my chest and smiled.

And yeah.

Lisa:
Oh that moment. Okay. That is like Yeah. Yeah. It's like the moment where God brings mom and child together and just how did you feel? Like did you see him coming off the Oh he was the last one off the plane

Laura:
I think I remember hearing some of that. Yeah, yeah. He was the last one off the plane, so I once again started feeling like I don't know.

I mean it feels like everybody's off that plane and no one's coming. Yeah. And then suddenly, yes.

Uh this woman carrying this baby and uh you know, it's so much time was going by, I have to be honest. I really thought he's going to come to Be our child and walk through the door like walking chewing gum. Hi ma, how's it going?

Hi the train. Hi train Can I have the keys to Oh, I really expect it. I'm like, this is gonna be uh just you know, he's he's just sorry gonna be his own person and I've missed it all.

And God in his providence, I missed nothing

Lisa:
Wow.

Laura:
Um he was in a lovely foster home. I know it was lovely because they sent me pictures. They sent me pictures of his first birthday where these people who didn't have much bought him a chocolate cake this big around There were a lot of children. I don't think he was ever put down.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Laura:
I think he was held all the time because he actually didn't know how to even sit up from laying down.

Lisa:
Wow.

Laura:
Crawl, do anything. I got to teach him all of that.

Lisa:
Yeah. I missed nothing. Isn't that a beautiful You met will you miss the New Bring? I miss the parts I didn't want you didn't what?

Laura:
It's a commercial for internet. They're really putting us together on this podcast hours going.

Lisa:
We don't talk about these things in advance because I want it to be authentic. You know we touch on a little but and you know it was the same way with our daughter of I remember we tried to sit her up in the bed when we were in China. It was like this king size bed and she would just fall over.

She had no strength and so we were trying to prop her up with pillows and all and so I felt like she was still very baby. And I didn't realize that your son had been like that too. Um so baby, but so loved, which that is such a gift.

Like that's wonderful he was held all the time because There there's always a little bit of I'm gonna throw the word trauma in there because a child has been separated from their birth parent. And then they're with someone else and I don't think you can spoil someone by holding them like that and You know, I'm really thankful to even hear that that he had that kind of love. Ali definitely did.

And literally can write to your arms and lay wow. Right.

Laura:
Right. Yeah. Miracles after miracles.

Right. Um, and then as he grew, I would have completely adopted another boy. Um, as a speech language pathologist, most of my clients in early intervention were boys.

So I was very used to boys and I I loved having him. Um but he wanted baby sister. Did he pick?

Uh he did actually. I love those. So we We were away in Pennsylvania at a bed and breakfast and providentially, because there were a lot of problems with our last adoption agency, I did not want to use them again.

Right. And at the table with us for breakfast in the morning was a woman who worked for an adoption agency. And they did Guatemalan adoptions.

And she said, here's my boss's card. She handles that part. You call her Another god thing.

So another god thing, like finding a new agency just s so easily. Um they had a little website with children who were waiting for, you know, families, so possible referrals. But as you know, a dossier takes at least two months to complete, if not longer, and we had not started our dossier.

So we were at least two months. There's home study, all the home study, all this stuff. So we we were not near there and my son said this is my baby sister and he would sit and watch her little video.

And he said, This is my baby sister. And I'd say, I'm sorry, honey, that's not your baby sister. Was the face of a child though?

Every day we went through this. That's not your baby sister. We're not ready yet.

All the little girls. And I know many of their parents, um, all the little girls born right there around her birthday, younger, older, were all being accepted by families. And not my daughter.

And your son knew God had my sister and uh didn't matter how many times I told him no God said, No, that's his sister. And so nothing could stop that. And that is a powerful thing to recognize.

that no amount of how cute she was, how available she was, how many parents were choosing children, there certainly were ample numbers of Prospective parents.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Laura:
And I I mean it's clearly this is who God made for our family and made us for her. And it's a powerful thing to be able to rest in that because Especially with Guatemalan adoptions, I'm sure with a lot of foreign adoptions, there's a lot of corruption. There's a lot of questions that come into play as to, you know, how did this child come to be?

And that was she really you know, meant to be adopted, was she still uh like just a lot of questions. Yeah. And I can say with total confidence, no, my children were both made for me by God.

They weren't made for anybody else. It didn't matter who made them. They had a very important role, um, and they had to make a very hard choice no matter what their situation was, you know, and that's also something with adoption I'm very careful about is adoption language.

My children knew right away that they were adopted. It's not that they are adopted. They were.

It was an act. They are mine. Right.

I like that. You know, they well, I love verbs in the Bible.

Lisa:
Yes.

Laura:
And I love that verb. That verb is important, powerful. You are adopted.

You are mine. You are in this family And your mother didn't give you up for adoption. Your birth mother didn't just give you up like she gives up, you know, a coat or what have you.

Right. No, she made a plan for you. And that was hard.

Lisa:
Yeah. Heartbreaking for a par I I'd think of that. We've prayed for our daughter's birth parents and birth family, we don't know who they are.

You know. And you do know. Didn't you follow a little bit of background information.

Okay. I do I I remember you knew something or other and And so it's different country to country, but um but yeah, that is really powerful. I really agree with I know um there are you and I also appreciate calling the day they were adopted.

There's different things. There are some terms you and I kind of are on the same page and we like Um, you know, it's uh our child's put their name their their day. Yes, you know, or it's like Forever Family Day or something like that.

Um Uh everyone calls it something different but that we kind of like celebrating them. This is the day you became a part of our family And I like that we we a lot of times we'll get Chinese food. Well our daughter's like off in uh life now, but you know, we like to celebrate with you know I don't know if you get Guatemalian food.

I don't even know where to find Guatemalan food. I know, it's not that easy.

Laura:
When Andrew is a little easier. There was a Guatemalan cafe when Andrew we had to readopt Um right. So and then they became legal US citizens and we were able to like legally change their first names and what have you.

Their last names were already legally changed, but um There was a little Guatemalan cafe in our town, strangely enough. So we did go there after his ceremony. It had closed by the time Carrie came around.

So um but no Guatemalan food is not like, you know, basically revert to Mexican food.

Lisa:
Yeah, right. Which is fine. You know, one food.

One other thing. I know, yummy too. The one other thing that is interesting to me is that we had no idea with us when we were looking to adopt.

We had two boys and then I'd uh similar to you, I'd thought I'd of adopting Rick and I had thought of adopting, you know, we had talked about that for years and when we were dating and So we end up uh going down that road, but at the time we were like, okay, it's time. We had, you know, no funds set aside for it. But the thing is we stepped out, we felt God really pushing our hearts, you know, to do that then.

And I w the prev the finances did come. Like that that's a whole nother gut story with all that. But it's very interesting to just see um the timing of that because now there's a timeline.

I don't know about Guatemala, but international adoptions For China, like the year we went to get our daughter was the highest year of adoptions. And then things began to dwindle from there, and now they've stopped. So as far as I I don't know with Guatemala, but like you look at that and it's like if we didn't step out at those moments in time, like God knew, okay, nope, this child literally we didn't even know.

Like our our daughter was um she was in utero at that point, you know, her mom was expecting her and Uh and we began praying for her and just all the things that she'd be healthy, all these things. And literally our home study, we didn't know this until we got her information. almost a year later that our home study with the social worker coming to make sure you're decent people and you know not couch potatoes not couch potatoes you are not allowed to be couch potato And then you have a place for her, just all that.

And uh and it was on the day our daughter was born. Oh wow. I know.

When we told the social worker that 'cause we got her paperwork like in December then that was January and we're like Uh guess what? It's our daughter is, you know, it was born that day. So that's that's one thing.

I just want to pull out of your story and our story of seeing the hand of God. when with timing, timing is hard and um and and the waiting and even it's interesting, even waiting till the last person coming off the plane. And you knew at that point he's on that plane.

That God sustains us. Yeah, I believe I believed. And just the the waiting and the months.

And you know, I also I love seeing the hand of God. I love seeing gracious people along the way, like the the lady, the Marshall Islands connection, then she had a Guatemala connection, you know, and just other things like that. But I also think of I think it helps to I don't know that I even knew what you were walking through with all that every month.

Right. And you know, we didn't really text and stuff then. I don't remember when Uh no really.

I think I I was like earlier, I I don't know, but so you think of that, you're not exactly reaching out. Texting is such an easy way to connect and say, hey, how are you doing? Whatever, you know But to just kind of have that grace with the people around us, we don't know what they're walking through, if they are not able to have children and that month by month and how painful I feel badly I have not thought of that before and that I didn't know to even maybe walk through that even with you and to just have that be something we're aware of of what people are I'm always thinking, okay, what are people aware of?

But you know, it takes living life more to to even realize, wow, I could have been there more through that, even with that, in some ways. And and it's just a good reminder for all of us to just kind of step in there and be thinking of others. Life is so busy it's real easy to blow by broop me, you know, and not seeing the things like that.

But So you have then w you have your beautiful children, uh your family grew. I'm not gonna say you finally had a family, your family grew at that point, just coming full circles and you became a family. There you go.

I should have brought a cake. No. But what a beautiful thing that um i you know, I and honestly when we were um adopting I thought of the word but I think of this not just with adoption. I think of this with a lot of people in our world about how God sets the lonely in families.

And Um, and that's I just that's in the Bible even and I'm like, that is so powerful of people who might not have that family and God's like, Nope, your son he's gonna be Laura's son. Your daughter, you know, our daughter. I I remember telling our our boys that I'm like, we're praying for your sister.

the government of her country is not choosing her. Like they would say they take literally the family pictures and like and try to match people. Look at the situation.

Well that's what they had described at the time and just kinda looked at the whole thing of who the a family is and I said, God's gonna tell that person who your sister's gonna be. And but I love your story of God using your son saying, That's gonna be my sister. So just to win another God thing, you know, oh my goodness.

Laura:
She also came home um the night before Thanksgiving Which was amazing, but um that was a month before they closed Guatemalan adoptions to the United States permanently. Really? Oh my goodness.

If I had to wait one more month and then A week. Um we are very Langma, yeah, could maybe not have even gotten her home, but God made sure because Everyone was telling me no she's not gonna be able to come home the night before Thanksgiving and I said yes she is and sure enough you know we drove to the airport and everybody said it's going to be crazy at the airport the night before Thanksgiving and it actually was not The drive was easy, the airport was easy. She was not the last person off the plane, I don't think, because now in a post-9-11 world also We couldn't get close to the gate she was in.

So um she actually did get strolled right past us and I didn't recognize her. And she was about to get on an elevator and my mother said to me, I believe that's Carrie. And I said, No, that baby was too small.

And I was expecting her to be being strolled or carried by a Guatemalan woman and the woman did not look Guatemalan at all. Carrie didn't really look Guatemalan either for that. They both had just two very different looks about them.

And so I called the woman's name and she turned around and we just gasped like so it was a very different experience because when she strolled back my way and I looked at her, I was like, You're my baby You know, um, she just was so much smaller. The photos I got apparently were just very close, so she looked like this very heavy baby.

Lisa:
And she was a tiny lily lady. Did a lot of touching up on the foot.

Laura:
No, it just she looked so big and chewy and she was tiny. I had to take her coat back and exchange it for a smaller one. I'm like, you know, it was just so funny that she was just this

Lisa:
tiny thing and um and you know what i am still sitting here amazed that one more month and it was almost like an exclamation point of Laura, I'm God. Mm-hmm. Look what I've done.

Watch me work. That and then adoption close. I am just really blown away.

I because I knew they had closed at a certain point, but I did not remember one month and that that month timeline has been huge in in your life. So well lots of months with your children. Any other thoughts just on being a mom and just seeing international adoption and just the before the walking through before and now you've had a lot of other years with your young adult children now, you know, and yeah.

Laura:
I'm just amazed and so grateful by God's goodness that those kids would be mine. I cannot imagine my life without them. I can't imagine my life with somebody that's not them, you know. I mean, I'm sure I would have loved other children, but um they're they're mine. And I just thank God every day, honestly, that I get to experience that and experience life through their eyes and um that we are family.

Lisa:
Wow. Powerful. I uh there is a verse that I wanted to uh kinda end with just because I I was nervous about leaving our two sons and then flying to China to bring our daughter home.

I'm like Should we fly on separate flights? You know, you're already your mom, you're like, should we, you know, and we did fly together, my husband and I to go. But uh God, I I feel like there is something for a d about everything in God's word.

It it really always blows my mind and I've lived my life going to God's Word for lots of stuff. But But this verse, I it's in the book of Isaiah and I literally wrote it out and taped it under the window on the plane on on my way over to to China. And it says, Do not be afraid.

For I am with you. I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. And in our case we were going to the east.

You you were north south, but you could put it there too. I will bring your children from the south and you from the north, you know. And do not be afraid from with you month by month or do not be afraid from with you.

Like I wasn't really having this long flight and you know, leaving my children but headed to And just trusting God in that process and just what a joy that's been to us to have God pick our children, whether they are you know, biological, whether they're adopted, they're they're our child. It they are our child. They are our people.

So I love that about bringing your children, gather you from here and how God puts the puts us together with that. So Wow, I'm still like, whoo, this has been amazing. Thank you for talking.

Thank you for sharing your story, being so open. And I really pray that that encourages you today if you're walking through. infertility, that month by month cycle of not having of having those empty arms and the pain that goes along with that.

And I pray you see God show up each month. for you and I pray that you will uh just be encouraged in some way today by hearing Laura's story Thanks for joining us and next time join us for Thrive in the Mess and some more encouragement