From the Rez: Caitlyn’s Story - A Native American Young Woman Finds Hope

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host, Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. So hey friend, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

I have an amazing friend with me who I've known Several years. I met her literally weeks after my mom went to be with Jesus when she passed away And she had such a joy then and I like to laugh with her. She makes me giggle.

And her name is Caitlyn and she is actually a Native American friend of mine and Caitlyn there are I a lot of people don't always know there are lots of different nations and tribes What is your nation?

Caitlyn:
Yeah. Hi, whoever's watching. Um, my name is Caitlyn and I am Navajo from New Mexico.

Lisa:
And now my sister-in-law is Navajo. and uh one of my sister in laws and so I know a little Navajo but not much but I'm going I'm not gonna say this with the right reflections because Navajo is really um one of the languages that is still very much spoken. There are different tribes that still do have their language, like uh Lakota and Cherokee and uh Navajo And uh one of the things they say they're greeting is Yachte. But how do you say it? You say it right.

Caitlyn:
So it would be like Yacht eh. There you go. Yeah, so Navajo for me, like if I was to introduce myself to another Navajo or in general it would be Yacht-ish uh Caitlin Yinshie.

Uh-huh. So that's hello, my name is Caitlin in Navajo. to another Navajo.

Lisa:
Now what if you're talking to someone who's not Navajo?

Caitlyn:
Um I mean you can still say it, but you have to translate it. Right, right. I don't know if they'll understand. Some people do. I mean Yeah, but uh Navajo is the largest tribe in the United States and there's over five hundred federally recognized native tribes in the US.

Lisa:
That is mind blowing because I I didn't even know that and at first, like when I first was hearing about Native America. Everyone thinks about the Southwest, which is where your tribe is located and your reservation, um, which spans four states. About down there in that right?

Like Colorado. Well, I don't may maybe it's the three states. Maybe it's not Colorado, but um uh that whole area down there, New Mexico and Arizona.

Caitlyn:
Which state are you from? I'm from New Mexico. So I'm a New Mexico Navajo.

Lisa:
And my sister-in-law is an Arizona Navajo. But you guys can still be friends. Yeah, I think so.

It's like so it is a big reservation and people live there. One I have to tell you, one of my favorite it's one of the only novel words I know too. One of my favorites is Hush klush.

And it sounds like what it sounds like uh like what it is, you know? And it means mud, right? Am I even saying that?

And it to me it sounds like if you're trying to get your foot out of mud, it's like hush glitch. Like it just sounds like some of the that's probably why I feel like it's such a fun word, you know. And I learned with my sister I Like here I am this white person trying to make my couple little little Navajo words.

I also I might not be saying this correctly, but Ionishnaire was I love you, is that right? A Jose? Is that right?

Yeah. You can correct my Navajo when you want. You're pretty good.

Well, I think we've come to the end of my Navajo. Where's the start? Well, actually the only other one would be uh uh like a white person.

Is that Bellagana? Yeah. Yeah.

But it's kinda I what I've learned in some native languages, am I remembering this correctly? Sometimes the word that's like for a white person isn't always a flattering word because there have been some not great things that have been done through history and with talking here, like we're talking about messes, there have been a lot of messes. So it's no surprise that I don't know, am I remembering that right with Navajo that sometimes the word for white person is is it like the white fat in the soup or something?

Maybe that's another native language.

Caitlyn:
I don't know. Different I've never heard them, but yeah, I think in different tribes and languages for someone who is white their their translation It it ranges, I mean, around among five hundred federally recognized tribes. But like with Navajo, I th yeah.

Lisa:
There's there's hurt a lot of hurt with Nav Right. I can you tell that let's dive into some of that. What is some of the hurt like some of the mess?

You know, um you grew up on the reservation, some native people live in urban places as well, like there would be a lot of native people not just Navajo but lots of other tribes. There's uh various Apache tribes, you know, and different kinds though. There's like San Carlos Apache and Hickory, Apache, and um there's just lots of different nations, but they would live in some of the centers like maybe Phoenix or Albuquerque.

But you grew up on the Navajo Reservation Um, what was some of that like? You're talking about some of the hurt. Where did some of that come from?

Caitlyn:
Yeah, so um growing up I uh my parents divorced when I was fairly young. Um and That can be messy. Yeah.

So that's that's a big mess already. Just trying to figure out, you know, like just a lot of hurt that was within that, uh, that I realized like I did go through Um and one thing I seen that was common among like me and my friends was like we did all have like in a way broken homes. Like our parents weren't together.

And so like literally like my friend group were like like you like one holiday you'd go spend with your dad, another holiday you spend with your mom, or um But both of my parents like, you know, loved me the best they could, but it was like living in different locations in a way. Um, so a big chunk of my childhood was I was raised with my grandma Um, my my grandparents and so that's pretty common with natives is if a child, um, their their parents are in the picture, they tend to go to like their aunts or uncles or often grandparents.

Lisa:
Um and a lot of times, sometimes, not in all cases, but from what I understand, um people are also living near each other. I know uh like maybe there there's a hogon or a you know, a family hogon or a family home and so like the grandparents, like you could have three generations living very close together. I even know with my sister-in-law, she actually had um four um wait, no one, two, three Uh there were like four generations in some cases living near each other. Her grandparents who were very elderly and um and then her uh her parents you know, and then her sisters and then their children. So there can be a lot of generations there where they are living together. Is it was that similar to you, like the grandparents nearby or Um well where we lived, like it was a the

Caitlyn:
I think the Navajo Housing Um authority. So it's like a complex. Um so my grandparents on both sides like their homes were pretty run down.

Um And like within like it was like house by house so we didn't have like the Hogan. Like I understand what you're saying, but it probably depends on where in the reds, right? What region you're in.

Um because like where my roots are with like my great grandma or my on my both sides. They had land out in Arizona and they had a Hogan and cheap and all of that. Um so it really depends on like what area of the reservation you're on.

Because I think some are more in a way remote than others. Yeah. Um, like there are some places on the Navajo Reservation that doesn't have running water or electricity, then there are those that, you know, do have water and electricity.

Um, and like some on some places in like Arizona, the nearest store is like thirty, forty, maybe even an hour away.

Caitlyn:
Yeah.

Caitlyn:
Um, but luckily for me, like there was a border town, so like we were able to go to town a lot.

Lisa:
Meaning like right on the edge of the reservoir.

Caitlyn:
Yeah. Yeah, so it's like 15, 20 minutes instead of like others that have like an hour or two away.

Lisa:
That's like going to the city, going to the border. Yeah, as long as there's not Hoshglish on the road. No money Well, and I know even when my brother would drive when he and my sister in law were dating he would uh drive her back to her family's home and they would have to watch out for cattle guards.

And my sister in law, uh you know, she can be a little more quietly spoken, but She can also speak out and so they'd be on this dirt road. It was a long bumpy, like that washboard, you know, depending on the time of year road. and all of a sudden, you know, Doug would be, you know, driving along and she she would uh just uh kind of belt out, Cattle Guard and you kinda wanna slow down or you're just gonna hit it.

So uh and you also have to be careful you don't hit like um uh people's animals out there like cows and you know I and where she lived it was kind of uh a border between another reservation And their family actually had to move, I know, at one point down. So I know what you're saying about land and you know, it depends on where you are. So you'd go to the border town and so you're dealing with going back and forth between mom and dad, you're with your grandma.

How was that? I know

Caitlyn:
Yeah, like she was special to you, so Yeah, my grandma um definitely has played a big influence on who I am today. Um, not just like a lot of my childhood was her seeing her pray on like the side of her bed in Navajo and um my family on my dad's side was more traditional so it was like Now what does that mean traditional So like every native tribe well some native tribes actually they have different like traditions they do to in a way they say to preserve the culture. Um and so like They have like a traditional story, like a creation story, um just like what natives, it's a very oral storytelling type of format.

It's not necessarily like you can go to ancestry and find your roots. Right. It's right.

It's more of like if your grandma said it because their grandma said it. You don't have to be a big thing.

Lisa:
That is ancestry to the elders.

Caitlyn:
So like there was a time that someone was telling me about ancestry and I was like, if I put my name in there, I don't think there's nothing because I just found out my great grandma uh she didn't really have a social security card or a number and she she passed uh everyone said she was ninety seven but they were saying that for the past three years So I think she was a hundred Honestly. Oh my goodness. And like what she did was like for World War II, I think it was World War II, but She made like stencils, the bullet stencils, I heard.

Lisa:
And um so she was almost like a code talker behind the scenes in a way. And Navajo code talkers or other code talkers I know uh the Choctaw tribe, uh maybe Cherokee as well. I think um, but Navajo Code Talkers, they had some I didn't wanna I we're not gonna know exactly, but like I think a lot of them of course have died by now, but uh some of them have lived, you know, very lengthy lives, like in the recent years from what I know.

But Yeah. Speaking the Navajo language and it it really helped, you know. So definitely helped save America.

Navajo talkers. It is really something and The interesting thing about that to me is that people don't always know a lot about Native America and how some of my Native friends have been treated sometimes as a citizen like of it just in life, like a citizen on earth. I'm not even talking about of a country, just how they're treated because maybe of the color of their skin, but they really showed up and helped, you know, very significantly in that.

So that is something to really be commended. It's something to be very proud of for the Navajo people. And Yeah, I really I love those stories, you know, hearing about that.

So um so you are um I keep going on some of that. You said your dad's side was more traditional. Anything else to help explain traditional?

Caitlyn:
Um, just very high spirituality, I think. Um I think like with like the household I was growing up in, like with my grandpa, he would share a lot of different stories of like the spiritual world, of um just the way like they believe like the Navajo's appeared here. The when you pass you go through another world. So very high spirituality. Um so like that was my So when it came to like Jesus, the spiritual part of me wasn't in a way like questioning a lot because I knew like there is like spiritual world there.

Lisa:
Native people are some of the most spiritual people I have ever known because they it's just a part of everyday life. And it's not always like that for different people groups And that's something that is to be said that for it really uh like you're saying, it's just part of life. You hear it every day.

So interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

So Jesus was just kinda like, okay. Yeah, Jesus.

Caitlyn:
But like even like growing up, like there was a lot of different um just around, like not necessarily like directly to me, but like in the like seeing the struggle with natives in general.

Caitlyn:
A lot of um alcoholism, drug addiction, substance abuse.

Lisa:
Um Some sexual abuse is one of the highest percentages in among males and females on the reservations, which is heartbreaking. Yeah. And like um

Caitlyn:
suicide rates are skyrocketing. Um so there with like in native communities like there are I mean people in general but like it those issues weren't they were pr common. Like to see, to hear about, to um, know someone who's gone through it, like, it just seemed like it was in a way normal.

Mm. Um, and it really took me leaving the reservation and um to see that like that isn't normal. Right.

Like that shouldn't we shouldn't normalize a lot of those messes or hurts.

Lisa:
Wow. Oh my goodness, that is that's really significant. No matter where we're coming from, we shouldn't normalize those messes or hurts.

Ooh. Yeah, I see that's what I love. You just have a way to kind of just say it there.

I don't know. That should be a wall plaque right there. Um And uh okay, so you're you're you you kinda have a few different messes going on, like just kind of seeing these things and seeing these things as normal.

So, um, d was there any hope? In the middle of all the messes. Yeah, of course.

I'm sorry, since my ear i I just uh flipped my earring. I do want to say You made these. I did.

I love them so I love that you wear them. They look so good. Oh I well, you did a great job.

I love the color turquoise and So I just have to say one of my favorite things is um hi is either buying or sometimes people have gifted different pieces of jewelry they've made and those are my little prayer reminder for them too. So Um and they're just beautiful the women.

Caitlyn:
Is that why you wear them a lot?

Lisa:
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Let's see.

I'm not gonna answer that, but let's go practice. I do. I do need prayer.

Well, and that has been a wonderful thing to like pray for different things. I d we'll get to some of this later. Like I don't know you yet at this point in your story.

But um yeah, so it sounds like some hopeless stuff, but was there any kind of hope or joy or anything in the middle of all this?

Caitlyn:
Yeah, so for me, like, um, again, you know, in the environment of just a lot of hurt, pain, um, seeing alcohol, drugs, stuff well not really like hardcore drugs, but drugs as drugs. Right, right. Um and like having friends who have gone through different abuse things.

Um Like I never really wanted to do out like drink or smoke or none of that because I seen the impact it had around me um, even within like my personal life of like knowing people who would like drink and all of it and just the whole aftermath um that kids really shouldn't go through, but they do go through and like again that's in the way of like a native like normal but it shouldn't be normal. Right. Um and my grandma on my mom's side, she took me to church a lot as a k as a kid.

Like I remember

Lisa:
It was a brown church, small and the pastor would often talk in Navajo and um Now did you know Navajo enough? I know the older generations have known more Navajo and maybe not as much English. I at least that was the case like with my sister-in-law's family. But what was your case? Like, did you know enough Navajo?

Caitlyn:
Well, I uh It wasn't like the first language I learned. English was. Um, but as I started to get older, like my grandparents started to speak it more.

So I'm not like confident in like a whole conversation. Like I wish every novel person I talk to I'm not confident in like hold the I mean there are some who can and that's like I want to be one day. Yeah.

Um, but a lot of times like when my especially my grandpa when he would tell a story, he would say it in Navajo.

Lisa:
And there just there's just so much did you understand?

Caitlyn:
Sixty percent I don't know for say right I mean it just following like like I never I mean I never questioned. There are some natives who do question stuff, but for me, like I I would just listen and it's just him telling his stories and Right um And there's something special just about that.

Lisa:
I love that you had that connection, even though it came out of like the mess of divorce, that you had that special connection with your grandparents. Because I know you've talked so much about how much they have meant to you in life And not everyone has that connection because families move far apart and live all over, but on the reservation it can be a special connection because you st you are closer to where your grandparents are. So I do I love that for you.

And just I picture a little Caitlin just soaking up listening. Yeah. You know, too.

Caitlyn:
Yeah, my grandma used to make a lot of cultural foods and Fry bread. Fry bread, hot, tortilla bread, potatoes and spam. That's my favorite.

My other grandma would make dumpling stew and fried bread. On Sundays after church we would go to um, see her and just it was like that that was like Sundays I remember. Just going to church, coming back and she would always have like some type of food and we all come and my cousins would come and we'd play outside all day and and then whenever um like halfway through I think it was elementary or beginning of middle school Um, I moved in with my dad and so that was into a border town.

Um it wasn't on the reservation, but it was like ten, fifteen minutes from the borderline. And a lot of like Navajos went to my school. So like the kids I grew up with, like I seen all the time.

Like was it more mixed or was it was it mainly more Navajo? I I think it was still mainly more Navajo. I mean there was some like mix in it, but like you didn't notice.

Right, right. Yeah, it wasn't something that like I think like the majority of the school is Native American. Um yeah.

And so my grandma, she again would take me to church. It's uh it was a brown small church and uh We didn't have a Sunday school teacher. We'd go in there and play checkers and watch Veggie Tales and the adults would be in the main part and then she comes out say, Let's go and like that was That's what I thought church was.

Right.

Lisa:
Watching Veggie Tales, Bob Dummy.

Caitlyn:
Yep, the Esther one all the way.

Lisa:
That's my favorite show.

Caitlyn:
Um And so like there was a point in my life of where I I knew like I didn't want to just be another statistic you know, 'cause I would hear about like alcoholism, drug stuff, and I would see it and often like just to hurt it really brought and I didn't I didn't want to settle for that. I didn't wanna just s like I felt like there was something more in my life and I needed a purpose and Sadly, like suicide rates are common among young native people. Right.

And I mean even that hopelessness. Yeah. Of like why you know, why live here, why stay.

Um And so for me like I ran to sports like really any other native does is like basketball's huge and so I grew up playing a lot of basketball. I, you know, worked hard in school. I did all these things that seem right, but like there was still a big hole in my heart and um I've in my family I uh I guess I'm one of the strong ones, you know, that like my grandparents would say, you know, don't cry, be strong.

Don't cry, be strong. And so There was times like so many people would want to talk with me and just tell me what they're going through and it it just seemed that like I needed someone stronger than me. And so I didn't I struggled with like being real with myself and like even telling my parents like, Hey, I'm going through this or I'm sad or like 'cause everyone so much came to me that like I I felt like I couldn't go to them or I didn't like 'cause I knew I was like I don't know if it was a pride thing, whatever, but um yeah, there's a time in my life I started to hit rock bottom and just questioned so much and I was having so many questions about like this divorce and my own life and um and I I just felt incomplete and so I told my grandma if it w it was a church service and I asked if I can sit in there with her and she was like Okay and I didn't want veggie tails that day, did you I didn't but like in her Bible it was highlighted and I I would draw in it like and so I would like r take paper and like draw or write notes and So like I remember like doing that and like she let me like leave it in her journal her her journals and and so like whenever the pastor was talking he was describing Jesus and he said, you know, Jesus is a Yoshunan.

Lisa:
Like Jesus loves you and he sees you and I know that a Yoshunan.

Caitlyn:
So like a little bit. And so like I like I'm just hearing him describe this Jesus guy of how he loves me and sees me and I don't have to be someone I'm not, you know, I don't have to wear a mask but He he will meet me where I am and he can handle whatever I give him. Um and I told my grandma, you know, I want that Jesus because in the past I've heard, you know, he He's only for the white people because of the native history of residential schools and brokenness and so on and Um, even the pictures I seen it was uh white Jesus, blonde hair, blue eyes, tall guy, and you know, that's who I thought he was.

And he was a Mediterranean Jew. Yeah, he was a tribal language. He didn't speak English.

You know, he spoke a tribal language. He came from a place where they said n no one good can come from there. He and so like as this pastor was describing him I couldn't help but, you know, think like I I want that Jesus.

Like and that's where I told my grandma and I we she prayed with me and I just I remember like just the the weights that like felt like it just lifted off. Mm. And like I did grow up in the church.

You know, I did grow up knowing the right verses and the questions and the answers, but I don't think I really truly believed until like I was twelve or thirteen.

Lisa:
And there is a difference. Like going like being involved in a church and going to a church is one thing, but church doesn't save us. Church doesn't it that's not our you know, uh Jesus is the one who saves us.

He God is the one who we have the relationship with. And then church is a place to grow and be with people and like fellowship with other believers and learn more about God's word and things like that But uh but Jesus is the one who saves us and gets rid of that weight. Oh my goodness.

I love hearing that. Yeah I'm glad that you didn't want Veggie Tales that one Sunday. I still like Esther on Veggie Tales.

Well Veggie Tales was huge in our house. Our oldest son was like We were all about veggie tails, so but wow, so that relationship with Jesus then, uh d uh how did that, you know, change things?

Caitlyn:
Yeah, so when I Or did it.

Caitlyn:
I mean it it definitely took time. Uh it took a lot of like the Lord really had to work on me as a person. Like it um definitely I had to heal from different things I went through in my life or didn't think I needed to heal from, but I actually did like unforgiveness and Um and like yeah, he God just came into my life and turned it around.

Like I I like the beginning of my walk with Jesus, we still didn't have a Sunday school teacher. Um my mom went to a different church. So sometimes I would go with her, but I was my grandma a lot.

Like I like I knew the code to get into the church. Like that's how much I that's how much I was with my grandma. I knew where she hid the keys.

Um but like what I remember is she gave me a Bible and I would just read it. Like I I would just read about Jesus. I would just like like I that was my beginning walk with the Lord was just reading the word and Like, no, I didn't really question a lot.

I think because like I never really questioned like like when my grandpa would tell me a story, you know, I wouldn't say is that true or not. I would just listen and be like, Okay Did I believe it? I mean I don't know, but I would say okay.

Right. Um and so as I started to grow with Jesus and like my relationship got stronger with him, my family and our relationship uh in a way like became a little bit more rocky. Um, my grandpa, he you know, there was times he would question, like, Why are you doing that?

Why are you going to church? And there was also times where like he would ask me to pray for him. and it was just me going up okay and we pray and like he'd always say like Like Shiyazha, like your prayers are powerful.

And he played a medicine man in our culture or where we were from and basically it's kinda like a mediator um between him and God. And So like people would come to our house or his house and they would ask him, you know, can you do a prayer? Can you do this?

And he he would do it, you know, and So in a way like he was making like an impact. And so a lot of people would come like all over from like Arizona and especially in our area. Um And like when it came to like me having to start start or like not take apart in those ceremonies or you know, different things like that it with my grandpa he would, you know, question and be like, why or you should, but he never forced me to do it which I like looking back to this day, like I appreciate.

Um And so like as I started to grow more in Christ, um, he man, like just did so much in my life, like restored a lot of things. Um, he has healed me from a lot of different brokenness and uh unforgiveness and now I do have a purpose and with my grandpa like the man who was like I don't want nothing to do with Jesus like I got to pray with him. You know, my grandma who like was one of I think in my eyes, like the strongest woman of God I do know.

Um, she like she did pass in about in twenty twenty one I think. That was weird. And that was like my first time into the mess of grief.

Right. And lost.

Caitlyn:
And lost.

Caitlyn:
And that was that was really, really hard for me.

Lisa:
Um she had been such an anchor for you, but you know what I love that she pointed you to her anchor to Jesus. And so you ended up still having that anchor of Jesus. I know like even after my mom passed away, the the anchor of Jesus is what really just how God gets us through those moments when we just feel like I know I know there were times I felt like I couldn't even um, you know, pray, even like put words together, but, you know, you're just like you know, God still knows. So did he show up in your grief after your grandma?

Caitlyn:
Yes, he did. Well, um My mom, she's actually a very strong Christian as well. And my dad, um, and both of my step parents.

So it's kinda like I have four parents. Yeah. Um, but like my dad, he uh there was times where like as a child or like in my teenage years I was just so like on fire f I mean I am still on fire for God, but like I'd like find a way to get to youth group, people would give me rides and he'd be like, How are you getting to church?

And there's always, Oh, she's going to church. She's going to church. Um And like my dad, he in a way, like, really seen a lot in my life.

And uh before my grandma passed, I decided to go to school. Um college in Chicago and I w left home for the first time, like meaning like that that's huge right there.

Lisa:
Because some uh like for a native young person, some go to college. But this was also a like a Christian college. Yeah.

And that's a smaller percentage of a native young person who would go to a Christian college. So How did that work out? Yeah, so when it probably has its own messes.

Caitlyn:
College is like another mess. Oh yeah, so like when I started college, um my grandma was around, my grandpa was around My pastor was around. So everyone was so excited to see me start. Um a lot of there the beginning of it was rocky though um because I did in a way leave like this idea of like a family dream. Um because I worked so hard in school to go into engineering and do these different things.

Lisa:
I didn't know if you know an engineer. Yeah, I actually See, I always knew you were smart. Sometimes.

We're all smart sometimes. Oh. It's part of the mess of life.

It's like but we don't compare gifts. You know? So you're the one I should call if I need to like fix something or engineer or I mean I could try, but it might not be the best.

Caitlyn:
There's there's people who actually want to School for that. I didn't know what they're doing.

Lisa:
So yeah. So were people were excited you went or were they disappointed because you had gone down the engineering route.

Caitlyn:
Um, I think it was both. Yeah. I think the beginning too all the expectations.

Yeah, my parents, you know, they they really wanted what was best for me. Um but I felt God calling me to Bible college 'cause I wanted to get more training to be, you know, in the mission field and work with young native people and do discipleship and evangelism and I want like the very first thing of like when I went to school a lot of people are like, No what brought you to Moody? And I was like, What brought me here?

You know, I was questioning I was like, God, why am I in Chicago? No. Literally Playing it thirty w dollars in my pocket. Right.

That's messy too, not having enough money to like that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Um and so my dad and my mom, uh, they they were They you know they definitely questioned why I was going and again like they want the best from me. Um and that's kind of in the parent handbook, I have to tell you. Yeah.

I mean I'm not a parent but I'm pretty sure and uh Like whenever I was gonna go, I they both said you know, like we don't want you to go. Like what are you doing? Like why And it it really hurt because I I felt like I was disappointing my family, you know, I felt like I was disappointing my parents and I was like, God, like what are you calling me to?

And I remember like thinking like if if I'm gonna go like like I n like I need you. Like I totally like 'cause I was thinking, you know, if I go, like I don't know what my family and like they even like try to convince me well, I don't think they did, but my grandma tried to convince me not to go and ever I felt like everyone was just like, you know, like what is she doing? And all I knew was God was calling me and I needed to go.

And so I had to really stand my ground and it was hard and painful and there was a lot of times I cried and was like Wow, I'm disappointing, you know, the people I love.

Lisa:
Um And here's a big thing I see with that is you felt God pushing, you know, you to go a certain prompting you, you know, to go a certain direction. And you stepped out of your comfort zone But that's really scary for a lot of people. And it involves tears and you know, all the wrestling all the emotions.

Right. And and it's it's also scary for people in our lives to see us step out of our comfort zone. But the same time, I can't speak for your family, but I know even what I've seen in, you know, our lives and all you step out of your comfort zone And it really encourages other people too.

They're and and they're like, Wow, if they can step out of their comfort zone, maybe I can, you know, but I'm really proud of you for stepping out of your comfort zone Because and when you have just kind of, you know, it's it's uncertain, like all their reactions are totally understandable because it's like, whoa, like Chicago and far from home and the reservation and different you know, major pursuing a different field of study. But I you know, when God puts something on our heart, if we don't do it, it honestly that's gonna be not a cool situation later because it's uh we can choose our way to live our way or God's way. And that's even like sin in the Bible, you know, that middle letter, I, S I N, it's like us choosing to live my way or God's way and And not to say that like you could have chosen something else, but when we don't when we kind of squish down like what God's putting on our heart.

it you know, it's and life ends up not being as great. He really has our best in mind, you know. And um so okay, you're at college and any messy stories from there and did things calm down also like where where family were like, oh okay, we get this and you know, the initial once you're past the initial hump of getting there and going and did things you know, how did that pan out?

Caitlyn:
Yeah, um so I actually told God, I was like, Hey, if you're calling me you you work on my parents is hard. Like like I don't like you confirm it in any way, however you threw like to them, let them hear from you. And separately, like they both like did come up to me and like my mom, you was like, you know, I I don't understand but like like I need to release you to the Lord. And so like he, you know, talked with her and however he does and was my dad He was like it kinda hit him I think a little bit harder because like my dad always has provided and looked out for me and in a way he kinda knew that like this isn't something he could provide or really like, you know, yeah um control or be Um it is hard for a parent.

Lisa:
Like I I bring up our children and then it's like you want them to fly, you want to launch them, but there's part of you like you can't always be there for all the things. We can't fix all the boo boos, you know, that we could when they're little, you know? And uh so that that is kind of something in I think every parents' heart a lot of times.

So that makes sense what you're what you're saying with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlyn:
But for my dad, he um Yeah, I like it's probably like a day or two before I was about to fly out and I had some like really like ministry family, uh your family, you know, different friends all from all over who like prayed for me and I told We're all like woohoo. Yeah, I was like guys like I actually need support in this and like like family support. Um And like my dad, he said I remember he was like, you know, a lot of people in the world have jobs and they make great money and they work in a building but they are so miserable with their lives.

Mm. And he was like, But He's like, I'd rather you do something in your life that you find it worth living for and something you love to do and that you see like life has meaning. He's like, regardless of the paycheck.

And he said he was like, you know, as a as a l like a little girl to like your teenage to now, he's like you've always had such strong faith in God and he's provided. provided in ways that I can't and I didn't. And he was like, uh what makes me think he's not gonna take care of you there? Right.

And this is my dad. Like Wow. And so when I seen that I was like, okay, like let's go.

God, you answered my prayer.

Lisa:
Wow. And you know what? It's things like that.

Like I I look back in my life at uh certain things where I've prayed for something and I God doesn't always answer the way we want to. We want them to. Exactly.

And the timing could be totally different. It could be eleven fifty nine. Right?

Eleven fifty nine. And but the thing is that He does answer and I love that. And and those moments are things that have really deepened my relationship with God, like my walk with him.

And I just see that with you, like, wow, okay, God, I prayed for you to speak to my parents' hearts and wow, you answered. And and so beautifully too. Like, wow, for each of them to say what they did and So you get there.

I have a question. So you get there and I've heard this sometimes from uh native young people that when you go somewhere, um and there are not a lot of other native people, that can be a little challenging. Were there a lot of other Native Americans at this Bible college?

And how was that? Like that plays into Uh you can be honest.

Caitlyn:
So this is some nuts too.

Caitlyn:
So I have so many messes that happen, but God we like messes here because we're already seeing how

Lisa:
you were walking through and thriving in some of these messes, you know. Oh my goodness. Yes.

'Cause there's lots of layers to this. There's, you know, things from the past. Even I just want to touch on um when you said earlier unforgiveness that's a tricky one because that's something in our hearts that can just be lodged in there and we don't realize that unforgiveness and it really cripples us.

And so when you I when you fast forward to when you chose to begin a relationship with Jesus and how you said you've worked through some of this unforgiveness and all, that's really freeing because that alone, right, there there's so many strands to every story. And these are s just lots of different strands of relationships, of um spirituality, of uh uh you know, brokenness in different ways and uh seeing the different messes growing up. So Now we're in a situation with, okay, are there other natives?

Are you you're in a city not on the reservation

Caitlyn:
Like the border town was the biggest city.

Caitlyn:
Yeah, so um when I first left and was there, um There wasn't a lot of natives, you know, at the school. It was my first time like hearing the term minority, majority, my first time, um seeing the lack of awareness uh people genuinely just don't have about Native Americans. I mean I I heard about it, I heard the term natives are the forgotten people.

I you know, have been around, you know, ministry to where like you hear stuff, but I never experienced or seen it myself. And it took me going to Chicago to really see that and and often like live in it. And so my first semester, really year, was very rocky for me.

Um because in a way like I I I was like, man, like none of these people know me. You know, none of these people know anything about Native Americans. Do you say we're a history book or do we have V like there was just so much like unknowns.

Um And as I was there, like even in classes, like they would mention all types of people groups, but the one that they never mentioned was Native Americans. And I would always look for Native Americans. And this is like we are forgotten.

Yeah. And we're living it. Yeah.

And like this like to me was like 'cause I always like growing up, you know, I would see scripture about where the body of Christ, where unity and all of this and it just seemed like Like there was a table like this and like there everyone had a different um voice into it, but the one person or people group who wasn't really in the conversation were Native American Wow.

Lisa:
And so for me, like that was Is there a seat for me at the table?

Caitlyn:
Yeah. And so like I really like struggled. I questioned, I'd call my mom crying.

I did a lot of basketball 'cause I was just like I I Therapy I had to see like why like really take a self check of like God why am I here Um and my dad, I rem he's he would tell me, be like, you know, if you wanna come home, like come home and it felt like that door was always like open of like, if you wanna come back, just come, we'll buy your ticket and Um but then like it really took me to a point of where I was becoming bitter, you know. I I I was starting to in a way like like becoming angry with people who like just genuinely didn't know and I was like, you know, why? Like Like why don't these people care?

Like they should. Right. And I really like the Lord had to have me take a self check of like what were my motives, like what are my motives?

And he really in a way had to like clean me back to the cross of like learning how to love people.

Lisa:
Wow.

Caitlyn:
And not just the culture of a person a genuine person and seeing the worth in them. And Whenever I ask God, you know, teach me how to love people. Like, regardless if they ask about me, regardless if they even care about my culture, like how do I still love this person I'm talking to?

to right right and once like my heart changed like in a way like I like had like I gave up like that big like what is it, like zeal for like the culture part. Um, he he really started to rem like teach me how to love people and I started to see that as their approach was like Not necessarily like hear me or see me, but it was more of like tell me about you. Mm.

Like God started to open doors.

Lisa:
should do too. Yeah.

Caitlyn:
That's a good example. They're not because it's very easy to play the victimized card. Right.

Of like, you know, white people did this and da-da-da-da. And there are again like Yes, there is history and true hurts that have happened in Native America, but there needs to be like the way I see it is like if native people are very angry with non natives and like when a non native does ask a question and like a native or whoever, person of color really, is like always like coming at them or like not seeing that genuinely people just don't know. And they're not right.

They're not like choosing to be ignorant. Like they just genuinely don't know.

Lisa:
And it's sadly out of sight, out of mind, I feel like with Native Americas so often. and when I've talked with non native people and then some people assume uh you know, OTPs and you know, just different things or everybody does this and different people, you know, one of the things I love just to insert this about native people, the crafts can be different. you know, some of the jewelry might be made out of shells.

Well, not on the Navajo Reservation because there are no shells. You know, there's there's not water that but like people tribes up by the Columbia River, you know, in the northwest, or um just different things and uh some use porcupine quills. You know, we know people who literally they see a dead porcupine there, that's part of their livelihood.

They're gonna stop and collect it I wonder how badly those smell. But you're not going to be able to do that. You know, when it's your livelihood.

You're sticking with the beadwork part. Yeah, I'll stick to the others. You know, some people like even um uh I know some tribes they do silver and some people do um uh designs on, you know, silversmithing stuff like that.

So um that's just one di and they all live differently and have different clothing because they've been all over the United States, not just in the Southwest, but you know, Northwest, Florida, um, uh you know, um, Northeast, uh the plains and up into Canada. My goodness, we have friends who live on the edge of the Bering Sea, who we all know, you know, who um they like eating um, you know, different parts of different animals that we don't have in our local grocery stores, you know. So every nation, every tribe is different and unique.

And I think there's just so much people just don't know. So I so appreciate your voice even today. sharing some of just Native America because I think people honestly do want to know but they don't and it does hurt.

It it even hurts me. I'm not native. But it hurts me because native people are very special to me and I want people to know about native people.

They are this you know, this country's first people. And so I just love hearing your story, the the hard and the And uh the difficult because it just uh helps people know more about it. Okay, so you had a kind of a change in perspective of I'm gonna ask people about them and You chose to not be bitter.

That is a huge intentional choice. Right there. Did that help?

Did that you stayed there longer? Like, spoiler alert, you did graduate.

Caitlyn:
Yeah, I mean like I think when you seek the Lord and you trust he placed you put you puts you in a place out of your comfort zone and where you really learn what you pray. Um like like he is faithful to finish like what he completed and I think like from my first year to finishing like there has been definitely a lot of times of growth in hard, challenging times, but like so much beauty has come out of that past chapter of just meeting people, talking about Jesus, of Like, yes, highlighting the the the hurts, because they are real. I'm not saying they're not.

They are. But like also highlighting like God is on the move in Native America and he's not done. You know, like that there is hope and I'm like I'm just one of like probably hundreds of native young people who believe, you know, in who are serving on reservations who are going to get more training who love Jesus and just want to make a difference and like And so it was just always encouraging just to share that, you know, like God is on the move.

And it's like it's not It's like this is not it's not just me, but there's many and I I have the privilege and honor of serving along, you know, native young people who love Jesus and want to make a difference where they're at and who are making a difference. You know, whether if it's televised or whatever, like they they love like God is using them. And that that brings me joy because it's like we We are doing the Great Commission.

We are doing the work.

Lisa:
And um and sharing the hope that you have found because you did not have that. before and a lot of the native young people, probably most of the native young people you and I know went from having no hope. And then they had similar situations like you did and or still do, but they had a point where they're like, okay.

I see Jesus is not the white man's God, which is a very common perception, like you said, among native people, and they chose to begin a relationship with God through his God. on Jesus and that gave them hope and that's what you're talking about just uh native young people who are saying hey this is Where we found our hope. And I just love that.

I and I do want to brag on you a little bit here because I love, I know while you were in college You you didn't just roll over, you helped and be like, okay, whatever, but you literally helped raise awareness about Native America at your college. And part of that was didn't you even like they had, I know, um uh an a couple occasions where uh they had flags come in of people from around the world and students representing where they were from and you got to carry the Navajo flag and dress and your your Navajo Yes. Clothing, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah. Um looking all beautiful like that and proudly representing and you know what? It made a difference.

With you being there, just to draw this out again, you had I felt God, you know, prompting your heart to do something. You chose to step out of your comfort zone and you had a lot of voices going on where you could have said, nope, it's easier to just stay here. and not step out.

But you did, then you get there, you have a hard time where n people are like, Who are you? You know, I know sometimes people assume, oh, you're um, you know, anything but Native American Yeah.

Caitlyn:
A lot of people either think I'm Hawaiian I'm Mexican or non-Mongolian. So a lot of people think I'm everything else. Then occasionally they'll be like Navajo. And I'm like, whoa, how'd you know? How did you get that so fast?

Lisa:
So well, and I love that you had all of that and then you were able to bring awareness about your people. Literally carrying the flag and you know representing your people and I just I love that that you did that

Caitlyn:
Yeah. It was uh definitely hard. It w there was no real path to walk on.

Right. A lot of conversations, a lot of just sharing that God is on the move and really he made those avenues, like he made those events happen. He opened opportunities that I I cannot take no credit for.

Like honestly, like Like we had or we had our first like well at least that I know of, like our first Native American chapel where um Two of my friends came out, one of them shared a message, the other one his wife did worship and I did my story and that was like aired on like our uh like the live stream. Um And yeah, just to see how the Lord really went before me and made a way where I thought I was like w I remember my friends were always like, Caitlin, out of everyone on this campus, like We're for sure like people are gonna come back. They're like, but you like we honestly don't know if you'll be back.

Wow. 'Cause every semester I was always like, Mm, I don't know if this is and I kept, you know, even telling God like If this is if you don't want me here, give me one sign and I will go. Right.

And he provided in a way, like that was so selfish of me to think like that um but like God was just super kind and he provided, you know, not just friends and beautiful friendships that I got from there, but he provided, you know, financially of just sending people my way who can help, you know, pay and be there and he provided at some of the hardest times. So like in the beginning of how I said I started college with my grandma and my grandpa and my pastor. Now they are all they are all in heaven and they weren't they didn't get to see me finish here physically.

Right. And they were so excited for me to start. Um And so like that was my first big and like one of like my first milestone that they were at.

Right.

Lisa:
And that was a a year ago.

Caitlyn:
Yeah. And so like Like through that, like the Lord has just I think of the verse that when he says to like follow me, you know, like Not we people say don't follow the followers, don't follow the church, but like it really comes down to like following, just follow Jesus. And like when my grandma, the woman who like I like who man just raised me and poured so much into me when she passed like I remember like I was in just so much grief, like I couldn't like I didn't even want to come home because I didn't want that to be like a reality.

Lisa:
Wow, yeah.

Caitlyn:
But like my p you know, my family needed me and I I remember telling God I was like if oh I was like it's you're gonna it's gonna take you to get me through this one.

Lisa:
Yeah like like not I remember we are we're all praying for you.

Caitlyn:
Like like it was It was really, really rough for me and going home and trying to help my mom and all of that and like even like leaving right away and like processing, you know, in Chicago grief and um And then right after that was like my pastor and then my grandpa and like these people who I seen as like pillars in my life, like when they have all passed, like I've seen the Lord replace it with nothing but himself

Lisa:
So how do you see him show up like in grief? Grief stinks to walk through it does. It's really hurts.

It It it just it's really rough. How have you seen God help you? Or has he even?

Yeah, so like Um by the way, if you're hungry, I actually might nibble on something. This is not here for decoration. This is if you want something.

Caitlyn:
Yeah, but uh I think like The way I've seen grief show up would be uh or not grief show up, God. Um like grief does have trigger points, you know, there are I heard someone say it's not very much a straight line but there's always gonna be ups and downs and waves and it it takes time and and I first heard that I was like I don't want to do this, but I'm gonna have to do you know. Um I mean you know and it was funny because like well it wasn't funny, but to me it was like I knew all the verses, I knew like I already knew like God's gonna be like the s it's just the sayings, but like it was a time where like I actually had to believe it.

Like I genuinely had to like grab a hold of that with like with everything in me like, Okay God, like you say this in your word and I'm trusting you in your word that like you were gonna be, you know, my peace. You were gonna be my anchor. That you are closer than a brokenhearted.

Like you like you like I it was a time where like I um I didn't see God just like comfort me, like give me peace and that was like he did, like he has. But he also like used his body. like people around me who love Jesus who well were like community Yeah who like like when my grandma like first passed Like there was friends at my school who like I told and like I was like I honestly was like really like a wreck and they just came Like they lived off campus.

They came from the the train, the L and they came back to campus and they brought me food. And they said, Let's go sit in the plaza. Like you need to be a little bit more than a little bit of a few.

And so wow. They we just sat outside and I ate and I cried and cried and cried and cried and they cried with me. And that was like one of the very first times like I experienced like just the beauty of like community.

Mm-hmm. And although we weren't from the same background or race, like their heart for the Lord and their heart for me was just so like evident that I was like, man, like I wanna do this for other people. You know, I wanna be able to, even if I don't know the right words, to just like be there and to love and to support.

And so God sent people my way who, like, really like just did life with me and wept with me and listened and like served and like that was very eye opening 'cause like I never experienced that before and it didn't like just stop there but like Like with them showing me that like I wanted to do it I want to do it with others. Um and so like now, like I mean it has been a few years since And I wouldn't say like it's been easier. Right.

But I've seen God um Just keep me close. Mm-hmm. And really that's all I want is just to be close.

Because like like um March so in March has passed March it's been a year since my grandpa another year since my grandpa has passed. And I just came back from an international missions trip to Mongolia. um in April in March and so in April this month, um, it kinda hit me of like Man, like 'cause he was so excited that I was traveling and going and he would love to hear like what I'm doing and um so it kinda hit me like this past month like, you know, I wasn't able to call and like talk with him

Lisa:
Right.

Caitlyn:
And so like even like that fresh, like in a way milestone or something new, because I've never been out of the country before and it was my first time. like there's so much excitement but it was kinda like hard to like yeah not share it with like those who like knew. You're special people.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um and so like during like this month like the Lord has given me peace and strength to continue to be in the role I'm playing yeah right now of the work I do.

Lisa:
Yeah. You encourage people quite a bit. I I I wanna ask you a question Do you think because you had that community come around you, but I'm thinking back to the uh freshman year, we were becoming bitter.

And it took a choice of of um turning it around and asking people about them, instead of saying, Poor me, you said the victim. Do you think your Well, I think there's a lot of things, but like would you have even made it through college if you hadn't had that change in your thinking? But also, um, would you have had the kind of community you had?

if you hadn't kind of switched and turned because you kinda had to say, Okay, I'm gonna try to focus on other people. Even though they don't see me, they don't see my people, they don't know me, they don't seem to want to, uh not necessarily th like we're not saying motive on that, but like they just don't know, you know, um, it's off their radar and but Do you think things would have been um how would that have played out if you had not made that switch in your thinking And God kinda turned that so but we have to choose to turn that sort sometimes too. Like God can show us that but I think uh I like did cave in and like end up like just

Caitlyn:
I just see like floating, like just like whatever. Um I think I probably would have left. I probably would have finished.

I probably would have settled for just bare minimum. Mm-hmm. You know?

And I mean, for me like home is always there and it's always gonna be open. Mm-hmm. But I know that's a big comfort zone Right.

And so I think like if I if I did like Caven, um, I would have just I w I don't like it I would have left and probably just been like, Whatever. Um but because of the Lord and his grace and his strength in this, like really like a lot of my story has been his strength that has got me through all the messes and to wow to thriving. Like honestly have because Riven Thriven.

You have thrived. She said you've thriven. I like that word.

We're gonna make it a word here. Yep. But I really like Like I c it's it's only by him and him alone, like honestly.

Like even from going out of the country and being able to share in a whole different culture about Jesus and um a lot of so like when this past trip I went to Mongolia um in my first time and A lot of time like I like just sat back and observed and the people there had so many questions about Native Americans. Like they were just so fascinated. They wanted to know.

They had like they knew like some knowledge of like from movies or so on and so like we spent some time in a very like remote area and I you know, as I was there with like the team I went with, um, and they were asking us questions and we all had different opportunities to share our story. Um And, you know, we we did talk about the hurts and the pains and the history 'cause they wanted to know the history. But in a way it was pretty beautiful to see how God redeemed that because of Jesus.

Right. Because within all of our lives it it was Jesus who was a difference maker. You know, it was Jesus who helped healed healed our wounds that we that we don't like to talk about.

It was Jesus who gave us purpose and it's it's only by the cross. And for that, like that kind of opened like me up back to like the simplicity of like the gospel. You know, like we got to pray with people not in churches or all the things of like a Christi like Christianity, you know, um the big movements or not saying none that's bad, but we literally just went to different families and their small gears, they call them a gear, a house, and we just walked in and

Lisa:
We got to commun like is that the round Yeah. Yeah, like the Hogans, the Navajo people.

Caitlyn:
So like we got to like go and just um, have bread with them, literally bread or candy, milk tea and just talk with them. We didn't have a schedule or a clock. It was just

Lisa:
the conversation was going, it'll go and then you carry on and And when you say gospel, what did you share? What does that mean? That you would talk about when

Caitlyn:
The gospel.

Lisa:
Yeah, what do you what do you mean when you say that? Yeah, okay. So like when like Like if someone's wondering, okay, this hope you're talking about Caitlin and you like to share it with others How can someone else have that kind of hope?

Caitlyn:
Yep, so um like If you like look around wherever you're at, wherever you live, whoever's watching, you know, you see that there's creation and obviously you know there's a creator, there's God. And you can look around everywhere and in the Bible it says, you know, you're created to have a relationship with God. To be in community to be with Him.

Um but the thing is we don't have it. And what why we don't have that is because of a word called sin. Um and so like how you started in the beginning of this podcast, S-I-N, the middle letters I So basically what you're telling God is I want to live my own life.

I want to do my own thing. I want to find my own solutions. I I'm gonna control, you know, what I can and you know, God you created the mountains, you created trees, you created the tumbleweeds, the dirt, whatever.

But like when it comes to me, like I I got myself And what sin does is that separates you from God. And when you're separated from God, you know, you really there's this void, you know, it's it may be of emptiness, it may be of depression, it may Um, you don't have a purpose. You know, you may question a lot and it just seems like, Why am I here on earth?

But the thing is like, because God loves us so much You know, he sent his son down to die for us and his name is Jesus. And what Jesus did was he took this death penalty we were supposed to pay. And he died for us.

And Jesus wasn't a white person. He wasn't uh you know, this big stereotypical six foot blonde hair, blue eyes. had it all together, the finest clothing, even maybe he he didn't have the finest shoes, you know, he didn't have Jordans or none of that.

Like like Jesus Jesus really was a man a brown skin. I mean of George. The Gen Z translation.

Right. Um But like Jesus he was a man who um came from a place where they said nothing good would come from there. He was a tribal man.

Lisa:
He um sadly some people say that about our reservations. Yeah. And it's so not true.

But yeah. Keep going. I love this.

Caitlyn:
He didn't you know he didn't speak English. You know, he spoke in his tribal dialect. He Um, really if you like think of a reservation like he probably would blend right in, you know, he'd he probab you probably wouldn't even tell, like, he's a Mediterranean Jew and um And his n real name wasn't like Jesus, his name was Yeshua.

Mm. And he was fully man and fully God and he paid this debt that we were supposed to pay. And the one motive he had was love And what that did was as he paid the death of of sin of for us to have this relationship, um, he didn't only stay dead, but he rose again.

And you can look in any religion, you can look in any story, you can look in any tomb, any grave, like there will be still a sign and a trace of a person there. Right. Or whatever, you know, Buddha, whoever.

but if you look in the tomb of Jesus, like it's empty. Mm. And you know, Jesus not here.

Yeah. And he has been the only man to ever conquer death. And because of that, we can't have this relationship with

Caitlyn:
God.

Caitlyn:
And it is it is a choice. So like if you look at like like how you grabbed like a cookie earlier from here, um I didn't force you to eat it. You know, I didn't say here, take this.

You grabbed it because you wanted it. Because you you were hungry or you wanted to because you made that first move. Right, right.

Um So a relationship with Jesus is something that you must grab if you want it. And it's not gonna be forced upon you. And I think that's where a lot of the history of native people has been has happened, is because the gospel Sadly was forced in different ways through residential schools when it is a gift.

You know, it is it's the gift of life and it's something that you get to choose and you can choose And really it's just because God just wants to be with you and not to have you do life alone or face these messes alone. But the only way you can thrive is if you got Jesus by your side

Lisa:
Uh. Okay, that's probably one of the biggest mic drops right there. The only way you can I you can Think just dropped the mic, but I don't think they'd appreciate that with the sound quality.

But anyway, that you know, that's so well said though, of um doing the messes of life in To be able to thrive having that hope, the hope that Jesus gives. And um friend, I just have to say if there's any way you want this hope that Caitlin's talk about talked about today and that other I like she's walked through so much mess and the mess can hurt. The mess leaves wounds.

But um I love how you don't lightly say that God has done this. It's because you've lived it, because you've walked through it, because you've made some intentional choices to heal and the unforgiveness and and really look to God every step of the way. And if you'd like that hope Uh the Bible literally says, believe on the name of Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

You can call out to him and just talk with him and choose to begin that relationship and just ask to um get n you know, clean your heart from the past junk and the crud and uh and turn from living my way to saying, God, I choose your way and having that relationship with him and I'm so thankful for you sharing and just all of this. And are there any other messes in life you'd like to share? I feel like this has been Just an amazing conversation.

I've been like down the edge of A scenes. Listen, because again, I've known some of your story, but this has just been really powerful to hear of you know, the mess and the mess doesn't have to win. And I I love just seeing the hope throughout your story and the choices and and what God's done with that.

And one other thing that I thought of while you were talking a couple different times was the um like even with your dad when he released you for school and just how he saw God wan you know, was directing you that way and leaving the care of your father. And the Bible talks about when we choose a relationship with God. He's our heavenly father, our heavenly daddy, you know, and and he's been that for you and in some hard times and I love love hearing about that.

So um any final thoughts

Caitlyn:
Yeah, I mean, uh like back to my grandpa. Yeah. Um like when he did pass, you know, I I went home and spent some time with him before and uh I've had the privilege and honor of being a part of a ministry on Eagles Wings that goes to different all over throughout Native America and we share the gospel on basketball courts.

So I got to um Like just share the gospel with other young native people. Um, and the one person I was most intimidated by to ever share the gospel with was my grandpa. I don't know why, I think.

I was gonna ask why, do you think I think because like I knew like I I was just I was so intimidated. You know, I I was thinking like I can go to the r most random reservation and talk to a young person about Jesus, but

Lisa:
when I go home and talk to my grandpa I I would freeze and be like, I don't know and um And this is the grandpa who asked you to pray for him things too from us.

Caitlyn:
Yeah. And so Um, it was in February, I think, uh maybe two years now, maybe three, I don't remember, but he um I think it was two years. He he was in his room and I remember I was like, I need to ask him about Jesus and I was like, Okay Lord L and it like things are going south pretty fast and so I went and asked him like, hey, do you want to accept Jesus of the Bible?

And it was the longest like minute of my life. Like it felt like it it was quiet. I was silent.

My sister was in that room with me. And um and he looked at me and he said, Oh, which is yes. And so I got to pray with him.

You know, again it wasn't in a church, it wasn't through a pastor. What it was just his granddaughter and him. And I got to pray with him and sing him, Jesus loves me in Navajo And the peace of God fell in that room and on his body.

And I've never seen nothing like that. Like where you can physically see someone in so much like distress to where like you could just see that like he was like okay.

Lisa:
Like I don't know how to describe it. But but that's like what the Bible says, the peace that goes beyond our understanding right? Yeah. And it literally physically like happened.

Caitlyn:
And then shortly after that, like things went south and uh and then like he ended up passing and we did his service in a church and just getting to share, you know, the gospel and that. And with all the big messes in my life, um, some of them that I was like, what is happening? God, where are you?

Why am I here? all the questions like really like the only way to thrive was because of Jesus and is because of Jesus and I guess some of my final thoughts to whoever's watching, um, is to remember like you were created for a purpose. And you are created to do more and you matter.

And just know that the God who has made the heavens and the earth is a God who Literally longs to be with you and to do life with you. And life isn't worth doing alone. But the way you can thrive is when you do it with him.

And so I mean with especially like the native background, um, Native Americans There are is a lot of hurt and I will never say like there isn't because there is but it is beautiful when you see the Lord just use his gospel to reach, you know, the people and the good news. The good news. And the good news that never ends, really.

And like it's been it's been amazing to see how God continuously raises up people, you know, and who want to work on reservations or even throughout the world. 'Cause like Well I've heard the saying like Native Americans for so long is a mission field. You know, we get VBS's, we get missionaries, which which is not bad, which God does use But there is a time and I honestly believe the time is now that natives are becoming that mission force Wow.

Lisa:
And what a beautiful shape. Open Field Mission Force. Well, sharing the hope that you have found.

That's the beautiful thing about it that that you're sharing. And I love that. Wow.

So and how amazing about your grandpa too. Yes.

Caitlyn:
Praise God about him. But I mean thank you so much for asking

Caitlyn:
Thank you for getting it.

Caitlyn:
I wish I had some better coffee for you.

Lisa:
I did not touch it. I'll drink it now. But I did I So just appreciate you, you sharing so much hope here in the middle of mess. And I really hope you've been encouraged today. I uh pray that some of Caitlin's story will be encouraging to you no matter what mess, what strand of her story might have touched your life today. And

Caitlyn:
I hope you'll be here next time to join us on Thrive in the Mess.