Breaking the Cycle: Family Addiction to Freedom & Hope - “Not going to rage out like my Mom & Dad

Taylor:
My dad he was he was kind of in my face and he said, you know son, if you ever decide to kill me in my sleep, you better make sure I'm dead. Because if not I'm gonna come after you

Lisa:
Welcome to Thrive in the Mess. I'm your host Lisa Hutchcraft Whitmer. So hey friend, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

I'm excited Excited you're here, we really like to tackle different messes in life and because we all have mess Some kind of mess in our life, and we usually feel like we are alone in that mess also. So we are here to give some practical help and some hope with whatever mess you might be walking through. Because I know I have messes I walk through and I'm so excited to have a friend as my guest today And we're gonna jump into some of his messes.

Taylor, welcome to Thrive in the Mess.

Taylor:
Hey, thanks for having me.

Lisa:
Oh, I'm so thrilled. you're here and I know you have walked through some messes in life and we do you want to dive in somewhere? I don't know Where in your life you want to jump in and Yeah, sure.

Taylor:
Um let's see. That's a good starting point.

Lisa:
Childhood, teenage, young adults. I'm not Well, you're still a young adult.

Taylor:
That might be some that's subjective for some people, but I appreciate the thought.

Lisa:
Younger than me.

Taylor:
So I guess it'd probably a good place to start with uh my childhood because because a lot of um stuff that took place uh which I carried into my adult life started at a young age.

Lisa:
So my parents they uh That's the case for so many.

Taylor:
Yeah, yeah. My parents they like to party a lot. They met at a party actually, so I wasn't exactly like planned like how some parents would, but Did I do a party and then a few days later my mom's pregnant with me and then so that's kind of like the the starting point of my life and

Lisa:
How does that make you feel like you're a party baby? In a way. I've never heard it that way before. You're like maybe you don't want to hear it.

Taylor:
No, it's it's okay. Um I never really thought about it. It's just um Well realizing it now, it's something that just kinda felt normal. And then I'll get kinda get into this later, but Um, as I saw my friends and their families having married parents and knowing what kind of what that was like, it kinda helped put into perspective that my life wasn't

Lisa:
normal uh so to speak, but uh so many times h uh when we talk here on Thrive in the Mess It's that's the case. Ever we all see our normal, our whatever we grow up with and what we're used to is our normal until all of a sudden it's like, oh wait, maybe It's not as normal, you know, but yeah, go ahead, keep going.

Taylor:
Yeah, so like way the way I view normal now is by God's design, a husband and a wife and a family and the in a household unit and So at a young age, uh my parents they like to go out and party. Uh I remember most of the time being with my aunts and my grandma. We all used to live in the same house So that I think that kind of helped default my parents and their lifestyle to put me with my aunts and my grandma. So kinda living in that and then not wondering or wondering when my parents would be home. It wouldn't just be on the weekends, sometimes it would be during the week and not knowing the atmosphere of what our household was gonna be like when they got home.

Lisa:
Right.

Taylor:
So a lot of it was a lot of arguing. Um I saw I didn't see like any physical stuff, but I saw my mom and dad push each other around from time to time and the best way I could explain it is Kind of like a tornado. So like you have the storm and then like before the tornado hits it gets quiet. So the quiet times were when we could hear my mom and dad come home from the bar or a party or whatever And those moments were really critical of like, are they gonna go home and sleep? Or are they gonna come home and gonna be arguing?

Lisa:
Which way will it go? Yeah, yeah.

Taylor:
So A lot of times I remember like being fearful of that because the moment I heard a door slam outside, I knew something was wrong. Mm-hmm. And so that was a lot of my life growing up as a child. Well, I don't want to say a lot, but more times than not when they would go out and party, it seemed like there was an argument. that would follow back home.

Lisa:
Substances do that.

Taylor:
Yeah. So uh there's a f there's a couple of key instances that doesn't justify it. Right, yeah.

Just saying yeah, yeah. So there's a couple of key instances that I remember from my younger days when I was a child. Uh so the first one being my mom was in and out of my life at different periods As a result of that, my dad had to do a lot of the parenting because my mom would be out with either friends or family, not really sure, but I remember one night my dad was yelling at my mom in in their bedroom and he was like, Every time that you're out with your friends or whoever, I have to lie to our son and I have to tell him that you're with family when in reality we don't know where you're at.

Mm-hmm. And when I heard that, I automatically started to think that I was the cause. Oh.

I was the reason why my family was broken. I was the reason why my parents couldn't find peace and my overall like life situation was bad.

Lisa:
That's a heavy load to carry, right.

Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa:
And so are are you Did you ever talk to anyone about that? Or you just uh had that, right. Yeah.

Taylor:
Uh so On top of that, um, it was wasn't really something that we talked about as a family. It was just kind of something that we dealt with. And my aunt has PTSD from some of the things that took place in that house and uh I don't know how my grandma handled she's not here anymore, but uh I don't know how my grandma handled it.

Um dealing with all that. But Um so automatically starting to question my existence. Uh when I started to hear those conversations and So that was like the first instance and then the other one, uh whenever I would get in trouble and my dad would be drinking, it I never did anything out of spite.

at least in my mind I didn't think I was. So I was just being a kid and making some dumb decisions at times but We all do Yeah.

Lisa:
It's being exactly right, being a kid.

Taylor:
Yeah. And but it just seemed like when my dad would be drunk It seemed like I was doing things out of spite to disobey him for whatever reason. And whatever maybe it seemed like whatever he was dealing with during that time frame.

on top of the alcohol, it just came out. And my dad said some hurtful things and he never physically hurt me, which I mean I'm thankful for, but there's just like the mental side of things and on top of what I heard at a young age and having to deal with that. Um on top of that, it was rough and this specific instance, my dad, he was he was kind of in my face and He said, you know, son, if you ever decide to kill me in my sleep, you better make sure I'm dead.

Because if not, I'm gonna come after you.

Lisa:
And Oh, that's terrifying for a child.

Taylor:
Yeah. And I never really understood why I had to hear that at such a young age from my dad, who's supposed to love me, who's supposed to be there, care for me, guide me, all these things and

Lisa:
You'd enough an instability in other ways too of not knowing where people were, how would they come home, what would they say. I just you already had a little bit of, you know tenseness of like w how will people be today or where will they be and yeah, oh wow. I'm sorry you had to hear that too.

Taylor:
That's Yeah. So that was a that was a rough patch of my childhood kinda Analyzing things and I've always been a thinker, so like trying to process all the stuff that my mom and dad were going through and uh trying to deal with a fella had to deal with is by myself um in terms of all the things that I heard at a young age and then trying to go to school and live a normal life and Uh understand that. So kind of going back to what I mentioned earlier, uh when I would go to my friend's houses when I was old enough to do that, their parents weren't alcoholics or uh going out partying and stuff and it just felt calm and peaceful and when I saw that that was like my escape. That was my way to get away from you'd found an out.

Lisa:
Yeah, okay.

Taylor:
Yeah, so I had a pretty good friend group. We were pretty close and Um so this is where like uh God kind of started to intervene in my life. Um well I can't really say that.

My grandma went to church. She was very devoted to uh Sunday service and being a part of her church and serving. It's interesting because my my dad also grew up in church, but he had a pretty rough instance with the person in the church so that kind of he has some church hurt there.

Mm-hmm. So All that um going into where I'm at with my friends, I have a little bit of church background. I knew church was important to my aunt and my grandma, but I didn't understand who Jesus was in this.

Lisa:
Or why was that important? Yeah Yeah, would you say who Jesus was and what was the last part?

Taylor:
Uh just why everything was important.

Lisa:
Oh no, okay, good. Yeah.

Taylor:
Yeah. So my friends or my friend when I would say at his house Um we would go to church that Sunday and then they would drop me off at home. So I don't remember how old I was.

I don't remember the time and place or anything, but I just remember that there was the pastor on stage and they were asking people if they want to receive Jesus and um for s in my heart it was something that I knew that I wanted. And but I didn't understand the relational aspect of what that was. I just knew that I was gonna have a spot in heaven with Jesus.

So I was super excited after that. I went home. I was like, yo, I got saved.

Um so there was uh there was a good time there and What did they think about that? They were happy. Yeah.

My family was happy. Uh my dad was in the shower, but I didn't c I couldn't wait. I could wait for him to get out.

I was like, yo, dad, I got saved in the church today. And he's like, oh, cool. So um so yeah, there was that was the starting point of understanding a little bit about Jesus.

Lisa:
Like what did you like about Jesus? What what drew you to, yeah, that's something I want. when your heart was feeling that way.

Taylor:
Yeah, I don't even remember really remember a whole lot about the message. I just in my heart I felt peace.

Lisa:
Mm. It was like And you hadn't had that really

Taylor:
I was like in I think the Holy Spirit was speaking to my heart and it was like Jesus wants you. And that was something that was a little foreign to me now that I think about it. And cause like not not really feeling like I have a place in my family. And 'cause all the just the unknowns. And so finally having peace with Jesus, knowing that he loved me.

Lisa:
Wow.

Taylor:
So that that's what that's what really made the difference.

Lisa:
Wow, okay. So keep going. You said that was kind of a starting point of like some peace in your life. And so how was life after that then?

Taylor:
Yeah, so I'm going into high school. I'm still holding on to a lot of the uh depression and like questions about my life and all the hurts from a young age into at this point

Lisa:
And so And what do you do with the depression and all that? Yeah.

Taylor:
Yeah. I never really I didn't know uh I was dealing with that until I got into my adult life, but So my friend invited me to Boy Leadership Summit and that's where I really Conference for Native Young People.

Lisa:
Yeah.

Taylor:
Yeah. So I really got to uh see How God can transform the lives of multiple Native American men and women uh at this conference.

Lisa:
And you're native yourself. Do you want to share your tribe?

Taylor:
Yeah, I'm Cherokee. Yeah. Enrolled in the Cherokee Nation.

Lisa:
So you le you were finding more hope and some answers and seeing other Native American young people who found hope in this relationship with Jesus. So yeah.

Taylor:
Yeah, that was really cool. I was like, wow, there's natives from all over the the country. And even in like my small world view, I didn't realize how vast like uh native country was.

Yeah, I think after my first experience with uh Boy Leadership Summit, that really helped paint the picture of like It doesn't have to be just a week. You know, Jesus can go with you anywhere. And But there was still like that relational piece missing.

And so fast forward a couple more years Um I travel with the Eagles Wings team and then afterwards so Ron was telling us like The closer you get to Jesus is also the furthest you can get away. And in my mind I was like, that's not gonna be me. Like, there's no way.

I'm I'm having so much fun spending time with Jesus and being able to share my story and help others find hope. Um but that wasn't the case. Um I was in a pretty Uh, I want to say bad relationship, but it wasn't the best best suited for me during that timeframe.

And So that's where I kind of fell off was not saying the relationship was the the root issue. It was my fault, but um In the midst of this relationship, I started to explore other things. And so that was uh sex outside of marriage and um along with other things, not going to church anymore, um, still trying to uh live right to a degree, but this I I knew I wasn't doing what God called me to.

One of my coworkers at this job I was at invited me to go to a party and I was like, I don't really feel like, you know, that's that's my thing, but I went anyway because there was a a form of acceptance there, going back to uh what I was wanting at a young age, f wanting to feel accepted. Right. So there was that in So I started to go to parties, I started uh kind of get into some drugs, a little bit of drugs, and um but that wasn't fulfilling my needs.

And The more I dived into it, the more of a spiral just felt like I was digging myself into. And So it wasn't really until I started to realize that I was doing this to prove to myself that I wouldn't be my parents.

Lisa:
Oh wow.

Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa:
Wow.

Taylor:
Yeah. And the more I realized that, the more broken I felt during that time frame. And that was one of the things that really broke me was realizing that it's like I'm just gonna end up like my parents. And not saying that in a bad way, but like I don't I don't wanna live this lifestyle. I don't want to feel like I have to prove myself and prove to others that I can have a good time, that I'm not going to end up raging out like my mom and dad used to.

Lisa:
And that lifestyle actually affected you. Well, it affected it affects anybody, you know, the person in the middle of it, like whether it's you living that out or but then as a child it affected you. So all of a sudden you find yourself living that I don't I can totally understand the spiral.

Taylor:
Once I realized that I feel like I was at my lowest point. Still dealing with the thoughts of why why I'm here on Earth, um, why I was created and I just really started to think like was am I really creative for just this? Like am I really creative for um this type of lifestyle And so that's when the depression really started to hit heavy and then the thought the questions of creation became into I probably shouldn't be here anymore.

So there is some suicidal thoughts in the midst of all this, and So there was a night where I was tired of it. I was tired of everything. And I remember I was driving to my mom and dad's. I was still living with them at the time and there was a there's like a pond by this golf course down the road from their house and I was driving and I was like, you know, I could probably just flip my truck into this pond or something, do something to where I wouldn't have to be here anymore.

But in those moments, and I'm thankful for this because I really feel like God and the Holy Spirit were trying to reach out to me and so remembering uh Warrior Leadership Summit on Eagles Wings and the moments where I got saved at a young age and then I cried out to God and I was like, Man, so God if you're real, if I was really creative for more than the drugs, the alcohol, the depression, these suicidal thoughts, all the things that I experienced at a young age, if I was really created for more than all of this, then you're gonna have to prove it to me because I'm lost and I'm I feel like this this is the only way out. So I ended up going home that night. I I cried a lot.

Lisa:
Grateful for that.

Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa:
Very grateful

Taylor:
Uh cried I cried throughout the night. Um But here's the here's where the relational side of Jesus came into play. It was a couple of days after, and I was Uh my mom and dad got into another argument and it was rough and uh I said, I gotta get out.

I gotta get out of here. Uh So at this point, uh we were we were in a different house, and my aunt lived somewhere else in in the same town. And I remember calling her that night on the phone.

I said, hey, uh I can't I can't live in this house anymore. I'm I'm tired of um the dealing with this. I feel like I shouldn't have to deal with this.

And that's when I told her about the the things that I was dealing with. And it was a shocker for my aunt and my parents. I didn't tell them directly, I left them a note with the all the stuff that I'd been doing with.

But it was a shocker for everybody. And side note here, but it really just goes to show like you never really know what people are dealing with. Right.

What they're going through. Right. Um outside of what you see on the front.

Um so there's a chakra for my aunt. Uh she said, Where are you? I'm gonna I know I'm gonna I'm gonna find you, I'm gonna meet you and we're gonna talk and This was like the biggest church in my hometown and I just pulled into the parking lot and I sat outside the church that night and I just cried.

And my aunt met me there and she was just holding me. But that's where I was like, I let God know my frustrations, I let God know my angers. I let I ask God all the questions, like why do I have to go through this?

Why is my what is my childhood so rough? I it's just like asking all these questions and I finally let everything out. And that's when I understood that that's what Jesus wanted the whole time.

Lisa:
Wow. And he wanted to- He can handle carrying all that. We can't. We like collapsed, yeah.

Taylor:
Yeah, so that's when I understood like this is what Jesus wanted the whole time. And well So after that, that's when I started to get my act together.

Lisa:
Um what a freeing moment just to like breathe for a minute. I feel like I need to catch my breath even Hearing, just thank you for being willing to even share all that and I'm so thankful for your life and that you are here because we'll fast forward and a little bit of the kind of person you are now and uh just the caring heart you have for others, but looking back, I can see where so much of that comes from of caring about people and what you've walked through and that You want to share the hope that you have that there's more to life. You don't have to flip your car into the pond.

And you know, the Bible talks about cast all your care on him. for he cares for you and that casting word is so forceful, you know, it's like throw it and I just picture in that moment God just saying, Taylor, I've got this, you know, I've got you and just lifting all that off. But we have to release it.

Sometimes we just hold it there and sometimes we don't realize we're holding it. But um I can only imagine how you must have felt that night. Like I'm grateful for also a loving aunt who showed up for you in that moment.

But what was your initial feeling that night? Did you I did you sleep well? I feel like you might you know what I mean?

It just seems like Oh like even just crying does that, you know, releasing it, but Yeah.

Taylor:
So afterward, um That's when like my aunt let me stay with her. So that was like the beginning parts of the piece 'cause I knew I wasn't gonna be in that type of environment. Right, right.

Lisa:
Um would you encourage someone if they if they're walking through the same thing, if at all possible, to try to not be in that kind of environment. It seems like it really helped too much.

Taylor:
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Lisa:
Yeah. Not everyone has that choice, but if possible it seems to or find someone who's a support even to find that uh you know, in that case your aunt you reached out to and Um and it seems like your grandma was the support, like in the younger years.

Taylor:
At least a buffer maybe, or Yeah, so she passed away when I was Probably preteens.

Lisa:
And just because we go to church or you know, choose to have a relationship for God, it is not make life perfect in any way. But it does mean we have hope. And I love where it says in the Bible hope for it that is an anchor for our soul that even when life is just like you know that anchor we need when You know, I picture the waves going up, down, up, down, up, down, and, you know, we're just gonna be floating away to who knows where.

But hope is an anchor for our soul. And even when life is rough, those ups and downs of loss or that bad medical diagnosis, financial whatever it is, you know put it in there and and still hope is that anchor. So um and it seems like your your grandma had that too, which is but now back to your story of you have that hope now and that anchor yourself.

So that that night you you know had some greater peace and then moving on you said, how was life different?

Taylor:
Yeah, it really seemed like Or was it different? Yeah You know, in scripture when Jesus says to take my yoke upon you because my burden is light, that's what I really feel like made the difference

Lisa:
And I ha I I want to jump in real quick like a yoke. I am not a farm girl at all, but I do picture, you know, on these two oxen or whatever, two bulls or whatever um you know, having that yoke on there and it doesn't it seems anything but light. It looks heavy. And so can you say those words again that God says It's light.

Taylor:
Jesus is talking to the disciples and using the example of a yoke, and he says to take my yoke upon you because my burden is light. You have the lead oxen and the one that's Kinda right there to also be a lead but not strong enough. So the the brunt of the weight falls on the lead oxen. and the other ones there to walk alongside. So I have this picture of Jesus being the lead oxen and taking on a majority of the load and then when we come in and the relational aspect is We walk alongside Jesus and he helps us walk through the messes in life.

Lisa:
Wow, that's beautiful. Yeah, that's that's how I beautifully Said, wow, yeah. And did you feel that way? Did you feel like life got later?

Taylor:
Yeah, one hundred percent. Um I s the the biggest thing was going back to church um getting plugged back in, stepping back into some leadership roles and uh going back to where leadership summit and then eventually uh feeling confident enough to apply for on eagle's wings again.

Lisa:
So uh God gives us second chances. And that's really the way it should be with, you know, a Jesus follower, like believing in people and giving someone a second chance also. So I love that.

Yeah. That you had the courage to you know, return to uh your home church and it sounds like people there, you know, God gives us second chances, third chan you know, he he's there and ready and Uh you know, there's two ways to live and and you're kind of explaining this of, you know, we choose to live our way or God's way and I know Lisa's way stinks. It sounds like not judging, but sounds like Taylor's way stunts.

peace, you already use the word peace and and hope and comfort and joy. I think of even the loss of my mom just walking through that, just the comfort that God gives that Um, I don't know how I would have walked through the loss of her uh without my personal relationship with g with God. And as a Jesus follower.

How does life change?

Taylor:
Like Yeah. Traveling with On Eagles Wings put me in a different direction of moving to the New York area to help work alongside a pastor there with his people. Um and then That was a few years there and then not too long after I meet my wife uh through the On Eagles Wings team. Uh we ended up getting married.

Lisa:
Thank you so much. You guys are an amazing couple and Okay, you may talk about uh uh light yokes that God gives us, but you guys are power lifters. You guys do like, you know, yes, you're Both of your lives are lighter because of God. Yeah, because of Jesus. But you've chosen to lift some really heavy stuff.

Taylor:
Yeah, and that's been fun too. Just uh something to do as a couple.

Lisa:
Uh

Taylor:
Something we both get to enjoy.

Lisa:
I love that for you guys. Oh my goodness.

Taylor:
Bree's uh training to compete at a national level, which is very exciting. Um for those of you watching, you can pray for her.

Lisa:
You have an amazing wife.

Taylor:
Yeah, she's She's always been a competitor at heart and she gives 100% in everything that she does, and I think that has been instilled. from playing sports at a young age and wanting to be a competitor, wanting to be the best at what she does and it also uh reflects in how she treats people. She wants to treat people the best way that she can.

She she loves hard. Um and people that are that she's close to, she always wants to make sure they're doing well and she's always willing to pour in to people and um really just uh For me, it's a good example of uh what a great helper looks like, and that's something I feel like God God really knew that I needed. Uh so she helps me a lot.

She helps rein me in when I need to and uh I just I can't thank God enough for placing her in my life.

Lisa:
So I love hearing like these words of high praise about your wife. Why did you even decide to get married? I because you uh saw other things in your life Um I don't know if you ever heard any words of high praise for other people like that, but what a beautiful thing to be able to say such such high praise and words of life about your wife. But yeah, why did you even decide to get married? Because you didn't necessarily grow up with that.

Taylor:
Yeah. Um she was all in from the start. We met here at Worthership Summit and um I was just I was just trying to be a good friend. I had no intention at that point, like in my life. I was like I don't feel like dating.

Lisa:
Like everyone kinda meets each other and they're big Friend group, right?

Taylor:
Yeah, so she she was going through a lot before she came here and um I just happened to be there when she started talking about it and I was just listening. I didn't want to um interject or give any thoughts that I had because she was going through a lot and what she had been through and um I just wanted to be a good friend and listen during that time frame and Uh during those moments, um, that's when God gave her confirmation uh I guess um that I was the one for her. Well um

Lisa:
So that listening heart and caring heart that you have not just in your marriage, like that's powerful to have in a marriage, but also with speaking into other lives and I will throw out there, you are you have such a heart for others. You want to help share the hope and peace that you have found in What the Bible calls Jesus the Prince of Peace and the one who offers us that peace and everything our heart desires. is found, like God can give us.

And we try finding it in all these other ways, whether it's a relationship. You brought up some today, you know, relationship drugs. whatever and and there's only only a God made us so he knows what our hearts are longing for.

So but I love that you have that in your heart and life, just that heart to care for others. And so you live that out now trying to share your hope with other young people and um do you do you have other ways you've seen just God change your life and uh 'cause literally the Bible talks about we are made new and our lives are transformed and do you see other ways like like even choosing to get married, not just, you know, be like, forget it. I don't even want a relationship because it um It might not it may it may be too difficult.

I don't want that uncertainty like I had or whatever. But any other thoughts on any of those things?

Taylor:
Sure. I knew that if I started dating, then I would have to have the intention of marriage because that's what that's what God wants and that was God's design. And I was still learning how to do that.

And The the main thing was um when Bree and I were messaging each other and I it felt like we were getting close to dating and I I was just straight up with her 'cause I didn't know what the trajectory of my life was gonna look like at that point. I've had people tell me that um there'll be a pastor at some point. I'm still not sure about that.

But uh I just asked her straight up, I was like, How would you feel about being a pastor's wife? And if I remember right, her answer was, um, you know, whatever God wants from her is what she's willing to step into. And So when she gave me that answer, that's when things started to click, and I told God, I was like, if this is what you want, like help me to be uh what I need to be for Breed

Lisa:
So um You guys are an amazing couple.

Taylor:
Appreciate that. Thank you.

Lisa:
Both with a heart for others too. Not just for each other, but for others and big heart for God.

Taylor:
Mm-hmm. So we dated for about nine months and then uh we got married. So it'll be seven years next month.

Lisa:
Oh my goodness, seven years already. Wow.

Taylor:
That's crazy.

Lisa:
Wow, happy anniversary.

Taylor:
Thank you.

Lisa:
So

Taylor:
Um so we get married and then so that was like one of the the God changes in my life is recognizing that um I can trust God with a relationship. Wow. I can trust God that we're not gonna fall down the same life path that our parents did. Mm. And so that's where that's where God really gets the glory in our marriage is just understanding that Um, we trust God first that He's gonna take care of us, He's going to guard our hearts when we need it, and uh just continue to choose each other every day.

Lisa:
Um so there was that and then Can I ask you I what would you tell someone who's like I have no interest in a relationship because of whatever I witnessed growing up. And what what would you tell them about m pursuing that relationship. Like you already said some things about trusting God in that, but what would you say to someone with that?

Taylor:
Yeah, I would say probably just to sit down and Really allow God to uh reveal whatever hurts that are still instilled in your heart and Give God a chance to um I feel like it starts with letting people pour into your life and then because there's a there's gonna be a trust there and the more you can trust people to help hold you accountable and pour into your life, the more opportunities you have to allow members of the opposite sex to come into your life and either be friend or if God reveals whatever is hurting inside, he can relinquish that as long as you give it to him, and then you can start looking at people in a romantic sense. And cause I feel like that's kind of kind of where I was at 'cause I grew up very independent. Um and you had to be.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So Realizing I was a C I was the only child too. So that there's that also.

Lisa:
You didn't have it have to share a room or share everything.

Taylor:
Yeah, I had no sharing, nothing. And So when the thought of marriage came about, I knew I wanted a relationship, but the things that I had to learn after that, like sharing and the checking in on her and all those things, but um going back to the question like You have to be willing to be open to those things. And I'm not, I don't always say I'm the best person to give relationship advice, but

Lisa:
Um it's ju and mainly it's from your experience just to see the healing you've had, but God's God brought that healing. also and then just your choices even with a relationship and so I appreciate even hearing that and Um my dad was an only and so he he will often say, uh uh my mom marrying her helped expose his selfishness.

Taylor:
Right, yeah.

Lisa:
And because you're the world is kind of all about you. It w m you know, it was you had a lot of rough stuff, you know And but it's just you and so you took care of you and like you even said, checking in and I love that. You know, that's uh what we do there i you can have a healthy relationship you know god can bring healing and you god can change our own hearts when we feel like We're too hurt, or we might be broken, or we might hurt someone. Yeah. Or we can't share.

Taylor:
Yeah. That was the other thing I was gonna share too was like When I was looking at a relationship, I know at this point I'm pretty self-aware of like how selfish I can be.

Lisa:
Mm-hmm.

Taylor:
How inconsistent Yeah. So if if that's if that's the other thing that you're worried about, like how you may hurt somebody, if God's in it, then Um it'll work out. And cause I've seen it in our marriage, uh just seeing my selfishness come out and the way I can be inconsiderate. And um, you know, like Ron, like your dad said, like um a great working marriage is a relationship between two great forgivers.

Lisa:
Oh yeah.

Taylor:
If you're willing to understand that um God forgave you first for your mistakes and your sin. then you should be able to forgive others for their wrongdoing. And so that's been something that I think about a lot when when I mess up or if um I say this lightly, but if she does something that um I feel like she m she messed up on uh there's there's has to be forgiveness and there has to be grace.

Not just for grace, forgive not just for your spouse or your person that you're dating or pursuing. But there has to be forgiveness and grace on your side also. So there's that's where the relationship works, is understanding that God forgave us.

And then we need to extend that same forgiveness to those who hurt us, even if it is our spouse. Right, right. So but Oh, that's so good.

Lisa:
Great stuff with that. How um How do did uh depression and things like that and wanting to take your life what would you say to someone who's walking through some of that right now. Who is who's at that point you were?

Taylor:
Yeah. It may feel like you're alone, but you're not. There are there are probably tons of people that are walking through similar things, similar darkness.

Um the biggest thing I would say is to reach out to somebody as soon as you can. I didn't do that and through my story you can see where that almost led me. And not everybody has the same experience.

Um and in worst cases it does end up on the on the darker side of things. But if you are dealing with that now, please reach out to somebody because God created you for a purpose and He loves you and it's hard not to uh tear off about this, but

Lisa:
You know what, we're grateful you're alive. That's something we can tear up about because those moments get way too close. I just read again this morning of the loss of someone twenty years old.

And uh things uh the world gets so chaotic and so full and it seems like we we feel like we're so alone and whether we're alone driving in your m car that night or whether we're alone in our room, alone in a crowd of people, and that happens and it's an I I God is the one who made us and He loves us so much. And you had people in your life who instantly, when you did turn to them, They were there. Your aunt was there and your parents were concerned, you know.

So I you know, it's to be able to reach out to someone and talk and get some help. And God offers. He wants us He wants to to love us.

He loves us so much. And just crawl up in his lap, you know, and uh get that hug that maybe someone has never had before even. But but I'd love to hear more from you if uh you know, just of anything else you would tell someone in that moment.

Taylor:
Yeah, for sure. You're a creator for more. You know, God loves you first and foremost.

You're created in his image and his likeness and I would hate for um anybody to hear, especially your family members or your friends, to know that uh you're no longer with us. And 'Cause we see it like you said, you just heard about a twenty year old uh taking their life and that just seems to be the case for most young people and It may not feel like it, but there is hope. And hope has a name, and his name is Jesus.

And that's where I found hope. And Every time I get to share my story is an answer to that exact prayer that I prayed that night when I asked God, why am I here? So

Lisa:
If someone is like, you know what, Taylor, I want that hope, uh how would you encourage them to find that hope tonight and how to reach out to Jesus?

Taylor:
Yeah, well if you're listening and you're you're watching and you you're having those questions, uh It's the gospel. It's uh Which means good news. Yeah.

The good news. It is good news. You need a good news in that moment.

Yeah. So it's uh There's a relationship that we were created to have. We don't have this relationship because of of sin.

And sin, if you want to break it down into three letters, S-I-N, the middle letter I. You're basically telling God like I understand that you're out there, but I still want to do things my way. And sin is basically to put it in short terms, is anything that displeases God. And because of that, there is a bridge that is created between us and God.

And the only way to bridge that gap is through Jesus. It doesn't matter what we do, it doesn't matter if we're a good person. It doesn't matter if we treat people well.

It doesn't even matter if we go to church. Like all those things don't matter. The only thing that matters is the relationship that God had created between us and him through Jesus by the spilling of his blood.

His death and his resurrection by defeating death, hell, and the grave. So if you believe in those things and you understand that there is no way that we can bridge that gap that's been created between us and God, That's all you really have to do is accept that. Accept that as truth and understand that when Jesus was on that cross and he was breathing his final breath, he was looking at all of us.

He was looking at creation. He was looking at Lisa, he was looking at myself. And in those moments he saw us and he said, I'm dying for you.

As a result of that, paying our death penalty because of sin, we now have access to God through that But again, the only way that happens, the only way you can find true peace and true hope is through Jesus. And the next steps are just simply praying. And praying is just a conversation between you and God.

And Um when you pray, you just it's not like church words, it's not magic words or anything like that. It's just uh just uh if you if you want to choose that, just uh you can just say this prayer in these in these few short words is just recognizing like Dear Jesus, I'm I made mistakes. I I've I've sinned in my life.

Would you forgive me of those sins? Um I believe that you died for me. I believe you pay for my sin debt.

And through that, I have access to God through a relationship with you. And I want to give my life over to you. I want to have hope.

I want to have freedom. And from this day forward, I'm yours. And that's it.

That's the simple conversation that you have to have between you and God. And it has to come from the heart because that's what God wants. He wants our heart.

And that's what that's what I did many years ago. And uh I'm living proof that hope and freedom can be found in Jesus because I'm sitting here in front of you guys today.

Lisa:
Wow. Oh my goodness, Taylor. I'm so thankful you're here that uh because you have impacted so many other lives too that I'm just so thankful for your life. And I do have one other question. Um how do you have a relationship as an adult with your parents?

Taylor:
Man, so I'm really glad you asked that because I was gonna ask if I could share that anyway.

Lisa:
No well some people may be like, I I can't. I I just can't relate with my parents because of the addictions that they've had and that I have scars from it in my life, you know. I if someone is is feeling like that today, yeah, just help us with that.

Taylor:
So I feel like I might be a little different from others that are watching and listening, but um it's been instilled in my heart at a young age to help and to love. And because I saw through my aunts and my grandma and my parents, you know, not saying everything through my relationship with my parents was bad. Right. But Uh we loved a lot. We loved each other a lot and family was was top priority.

Lisa:
And so they have an amazing son.

Taylor:
I'm sure they would agree with you on that. they're always uh willing to give out praise and stuff as far as what Bree and I are doing. Um but for my relationship with my parents, um it was rough, I'll be honest. And Um it took a while to understand what full forgiveness looked like, and I didn't really experience that until just a few years ago.

Lisa:
Um how do you forgive?

Taylor:
Yeah. Um I think it just something God had to do in my heart. 'Cause in my mind it was like, Yeah, I forgive my parents, but in my heart there were still some some lingering issues But God really had to get a hold of my heart and help me understand what true forgiveness looks like.

And so once I came to that point, um I had peace in my heart. And you know, it wasn't easy. You know, I'm 33 years old and it wasn't until just a few years ago until I found peace.

And maybe you're older than me and you're still looking for that. Um kind of what I mentioned earlier, really just allow God to penetrate those deep dark areas of your heart that you're still holding on to and let him break those. Let him soften your heart because God loves your parents.

God loves your family just as much as he loves you. And it's not fair On us to hold a grudge against somebody that God loves more than we do. That's how I view it personally.

But um so Oh you've lived that. Yeah, yeah. And I'll I'll close with this.

Um my parents came to visit us in New York uh a few weeks ago. Um we went to dinner as a family and my dad paid for everybody's meals and I was like, well, that's nice. Um but he got us in the parking lot as a family and Uh we didn't know what to expect.

My dad had got a a DUI last year. I was kind of upset about that because he was doing good with his license and stuff. And But he's like, I just wanted to do this as a small token of gratitude for all the stuff that you guys have helped me with since I got my DUI last year.

Whether it was money or prayers or support, whatever, I just wanna do this as a small token of my gratitude And I guess my aunt knew this already. I didn't know this at the time, but my dad's been now um over a year sober

Lisa:
Oh.

Taylor:
He said that he doesn't crave it anymore. He doesn't have any wants for it or anything. And he just did it cold turkey. And if you knew my dad, like this is pretty substantial. Uh so that was the first thing I was like, wow, that's crazy.

Lisa:
Well that's been since before you were born, even.

Taylor:
So wow. Yeah. And then the other thing that um I really feel like solidified the forgiveness in my heart was um He asked for forgiveness.

Lisa:
Oh wow.

Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa:
Um as a parent, not all parents do that.

Taylor:
Yeah. So it was forgiveness from each of us individually and as a family. And um

Lisa:
And this is all in person, you said in the parking lot after dinner. Wow.

Taylor:
Yeah. So For me, that's just proof that um uh further proof that prayer works. Because that's something that my grandma prayed for the longest time.

My aunt, I know my aunt prayed for the longest time. And Um that was part of my hope too was that my my mom still she's not as bad as like they used to be, so but Um just for my dad specifically, like 'cause I I knew the effect that it was taking on his body uh and his mental health and everything. And um one thing that he said that really stuck out to me was like uh That's not who I am.

Lisa:
Wow. Wow.

Taylor:
So he's looking for a a church to get into now, which I'm praising God for. And the biggest thing that I'm praying for is that he would that God would direct it to a church that's gonna walk alongside him, that's gonna love him, that God the way the same way God does.

Lisa:
That community that you look for and found.

Taylor:
Yeah, so uh that was that was the big thing with my dad and then uh gave my mom one of our old cars And I hauled it back in my truck, and my mom rode with me all the way back. And I was able to get some answers there also. Wow.

Just uh just the main thing was uh because like I mentioned before, she had left a few different times when I was younger, so I just asked her. I was like, you don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable and I'm not asking because I feel like I deserve answers or I'm angry, but I just wanna make sure I'm being honest when I share my story um that these parts are true. So I just asked her and said, Why did you leave?

And why did you come back? And she said that uh she left because of all the things that were going on between my mom and dad, and that's what I share. uh when I talk about that and uh she said she came back because she missed us.

Lisa:
Wow.

Taylor:
Yeah, so Uh that was like one of the the main things that I wanted to ask her because I saw it, you know, and just wanted to make sure that All the bits and pieces of my story that I was telling were true.

Lisa:
And well, and they were from your perspective because you didn't have all that information because our story is still impacted by other stories, you know, along the way. So yeah.

Taylor:
So that's since you mentioned that, I had a moment with my mom during Mother's Day a few years ago when we were still back in my hometown. And God had revealed that's where like some of the forgiveness happened, the true forgiveness, because I recognize that I'm going around to these different reservations throughout the United States and hearing other people's stories. And not recognizing that my mom and dad have a story.

And so I told her that and I was like, I know that you've been through a lot. from from being a child to where you're at now. And that goes the same for my dad.

And, you know, my dad lost his dad at a young age. And he had a stepfather, also lost him at a young age. So my dad experienced a lot of loss at a young age, not having a father figure in his life.

Which really affected him as he got older. And the same thing for my mom. She lost her mom at a young age and my grandpa Um she was into her young adult life when he passed, but uh the hurt's still there.

Right. And just recognizing that all the things that they experienced uh to get them to where they're at is a culmination of their story. And when I recognized that, that's when I found peace and I was like, you know, my parents have a story just like everybody else and recognizing their history and the things that they had to go through and grow through uh helped me understand that um That their story is just as important as everybody else's. And recognizing that really helped put into perspective of what true forgiveness looked like in my life for my parents.

And So yeah, things are uh with my parents are great. Well and that's all a result of prayer, trusting God with it, and uh relinquishing any hurts that I had concerning my parents and giving those over to Jesus.

Lisa:
And that's been a whole process too. Sometimes it can happen right away, but you've really sought that and worked towards that too after healing in your own heart and life and wow, how amazing the relationship with your parents and your dad what he shared just recently. Wow, is that amazing?

Well, Taylor, anything else that's on your heart you'd want to share? Any other encouragement? This has been Really powerful.

Taylor:
Yeah. Well, I appreciate you for having me. Um I'm always grateful to share my story and if it helps anybody watching or listening, you know, praise God for that.

I guess the last bits I would say just as a as a summary of what we talked about. If you're hurting, if you're lost and you feel like you're alone, Reach out to somebody. And the other thing is if you don't have peace with Jesus, if you don't have that relationship, find somebody that can help you.

Seek that out and get those answers that you're looking for because you heard through my story, I had all kinds of questions, all kinds of hurts and disappointments. But the thing that or the person that tied everything up and um helped me understand what what I was created for is Jesus. And if it wasn't for Jesus, I wouldn't be here.

Simple, plain and simple. Um, please reach out. You're creative for more.

God loves you and somebody in your life needs you.

Lisa:
Wow, Taylor, thank you so much for just being open to share your story and just share so many practical tips even and to share the hope you have in the middle of a lot of the hurt, you know, as well. And friend, I hope you're leaving encouraged today. And if you want to know more about this relationship, And just the hope that Taylor has found and you're walking through something similar, you can go to thriveinthemess.

com And there's more there that can walk you through some of that and hopefully answer some questions. So thriveinthemess. com And friend, I really hope you will join us next time on Thrive in the Mess.