Unsung Hero: A Conversation with Producer Andrew Erwin

Jesse:
Welcome back to the show everyone. Today's episode is a doozy. If you've enjoyed movies such as I Can Only Imagine, American Underdog Jesus Revolution and now Unsung Hero, you can thank our guest today, Andrew Irwin.

Andrew, along with his brother John, have been telling stories of redemption through film for the past decade. Doug and Brad chat with Andrew about the recently released Unsung Hero and how this filmmaker uses stories to capture hearts. You don't want to miss this one.

Also, make sure you check out the Storytellers podcast with Andrew Irwin. Link in the description. Alright, let's go mad

Doug:
Hey, welcome to Go Mad with Doug and Brad. Yep. We are really excited to be here today because we are like one of our best guests ever.

I can't believe you said yeah We'll come on, we'll come on, we'll have a conversation with you. We are so psyched. Uh, if you have noticed that movies of faith, okay, have become awesome.

Our guest today, along with this brother John, and they're a big reason for that. Andrew Irwin has produced some of your favorite Faith films, I can only imagine Mom's Day Out, Jesus Revolution, which really spoke to her about in a big way. And now Unsung Hero.

I mean I I am so psyched to see that tomorrow actually right bright and early Um and by the way, Andrew, my did I read this right? You know, I I assume the internet never lies to me. Looking at IMVD, um, directed some pretty amazing music videos back in the day, including that.

Andrew:
Back in the day, yeah. We were we were We were uh when we did I see you guys got your striper shirts on which I'm really thrilled about. We'll talk about the little moment at the beginning of this film because there's awesome. And I dare you to figure out who's playing Michael Sweet in the movie in the striper scene.

Doug:
But uh Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson, right? No.

Andrew:
Well yeah, but Liam Neeson was always our first choice. But yeah, when we did music videos back in the day, um You know, we did Christian videos, we did rock, and then we did country, but we kind of got good at blowing things up. So if we couldn't figure out how to end a music video, we'd blow something up.

And the last video we did for Skillet, I think the treatment we wrote for it was Uh the band comes out, things blow up, it starts to rain, more things blow up, it stops raining, everything blows up. The end. And that that music video has 500 million views on YouTube.

So that's kind of what we did. That's what we did for years until um and we did the video for Monster and Hero. Uh so we had a lot of fun.

Doug:
And uh that kind of led to the monster is awesome. That is incredible. I didn't know you that you did that one, man. That's awesome

Andrew:
It was a lot of fun. We did that in like this abandoned hospital in Birmingham, Alabama. It was the creepiest set we've ever been on. Definitely.

Brad:
And then you fast forward to now where you have got brand new movie Unsung here, working with for King and Country. And I was uh privileged to be able to and just honored to be able to see an advanced screening of this. And I gotta tell you, that this thing wrecked me pretty much from beginning to end.

I mean, we our listeners know that Doug and I are in ministry and we've got families and I'm sitting there and some of the struggles they go through and everything else. It is So well done from beginning to end it had me. And I have to say, I mean, sure, the reason it had me at the beginning may have been that Striper all of a sudden was on the screen.

My kids are sitting there looking at me as striper appears on the screen and they're just like, Dad's head is gonna explode. He really is That's incredible. I just had no idea the connection there and how that was part of David's story and the smallbone family.

So I mean, and you did a great job with all the musical artists in there. A great job with the casting. I mean spot on in so many different ways from Carmen, Amy Grant, all these different uh artists that you guys had, someone playing them, really great job with that.

Andrew:
Yeah, the the Carmen one will trip you out because like That's not I AI, that's an actor, and he looks just like him, like he's a dead ringer. But um, you know, with the striper moment, yeah, uh it's funny with them because Michael Sweet came to the premiere the other night in Nashville, which was Pretty wild to see him walking around. I I fan fanboyed out a little bit, but um but you know, we did a documentary a while back called The Jesus Music and um In that doc, uh, when I interviewed Joel and the guys uh from King Country, I just asked who inspired them, and I always thought it was something like Coldplay or something like that.

They're like Like, no, it was Stryper. They said, when we were kids, our dad was promoting them in Australia and did all the concert promotion for Stryper. And he said, When I watched them, the theatricality, how they wore the the you know, the killer bees kind of jumpsuits and like the way that they had the wardrobe and all that type stuff.

It was so cinematic and theatrical is like it inspired us to kind of start our own thing. So If you want to understand the music of for King and Country, you've got to understand Striper. So there's a weird kind of multiverse connection there.

That is interesting. So it was cool. It was important for them to include them.

Doug:
Man, that is that is fascinating. I didn't know that detail there. So and well Andrew, I gotta ask you, I think you're about Six years younger than me, maybe were you which means you were probably when they were in their heyday, uh were you a fan at that point?

Andrew:
Yeah, when they were in their heyday, I was probably about maybe twelve, thirteen years old when they were at their pinnacle. And uh and uh maybe ten to tw ten to thirteen. And I remember, yeah, they were uh I I used to sneak uh to listen to their music because my parents were a little bit too conservative with their music.

But I would always sneak uh a listen to Striper, be like to hell with the devil and all that. Like in fact When Joel, they're they're doing an accompanying album that's come out coming out with the movie of different songs, and they did a a new release version of To Hell with the Devil. And I did not think I didn't think there's any way on paper that was going to work.

And I was like, Lacrae, the King Country, and Striper? But I listened to it in the studio and I was like, it's the song I did not know I needed. It was like it was so good.

So yeah, it's a good idea. That's a good way to put that. That's a good way to put that.

Doug:
If you've never seen I just gotta mention this, I don't know if you've ever seen Um then we can move on from Stryper here. But I don't if you've never seen um Stryper playing live at the Dove Awards on YouTube at night in 1986. It's awesome.

You have to check it out. It was a different Dove Awards back then. And I mean the audience looks like a little bit of a few.

Andrew:
It was like a Southern gospel show back then. It was like a Southern Gospel show. And these guys come out like in their suits and they're chucking Bibles and it's like, what is going on? It's awful.

Doug:
The audience looked like aliens had landed in Nashville.

Brad:
Well and and yeah, in case our uh listeners think we only have you on to talk about striper, I I I do want to hear the so Unsung Hero, could you tell us a little bit uh I I want to encourage right off the bat uh for anyone listening to this Whether it's uh downloading it, watching a clip on social media, whatever it is, go see this movie. Bring your family, bring your friends. pastors bring your churches.

I mean it just really is a a very well done movie, very heartfelt. Uh it is uh not an overt, you know, beating you over the head with faith, but the faith is throughout it. It is very clear.

the faith of this family and how they talk about it. And it's real life. It's real life.

So go see this. But can you tell us just a little bit of how did this come about? How did you get connected?

with uh for King Country for this movie specifically.

Andrew:
Yeah, for King Country, like uh Joel Smallbone, um uh one of the two brothers uh is one of my best friends. So we've been friends for probably about twelve years. Uh I got introduced to him uh when they were opening for another Christian band and their dad, David, grabbed me by the collar and brings me into their their dressing room.

He's like You've got to meet my boys. And he's like, you got to be a part of our family devotions. I was like, okay.

And so uh he knew that I was a filmmaker and he pushes me in the locker room and I go in and there's like 12 Australians in there.

Speaker 5
I don't even know who's who.

Andrew:
And then he makes me sit through devo I think he actually made me read the devotion out of the book Uh and whatever David Smallbones says you do, you do. I mean he's he he scares me a little still. And uh and then he's like, here's my son Joel.

He wants to be an actor one day. It's like put a pin in that. You gotta go see them perform.

Takes me back out to the front row, sit sits me down on the seat, and it's like watch. And then the guys came out and they performed. I've never seen anything like it.

It was just, I was like Wow, this is a whole nother level. These guys are really fantastic. And uh Joel and I got to be fast friends.

And so throughout, you know, the years we've just kind of he's spoken into my movies of giving him some thoughts on his music. Um and uh and when it got to this he was like guys I I want to tell my family story of what my parents went through coming to the United States with six kids, one on the way, lost everything. And my dad basically had a nervous breakdown.

And in the midst of that, my mom held the family together until my dad realized his family's not in the way they are the way. And I was like, okay, I think I'm interested. He's like, I want to play my dad and I want to direct it and I want to shoot it in three months.

And I was like, okay, now you're crazy. But he was crazy enough to pull it off and we all rallied around him and when we got to the final day of filming we all realized we'd made a really good movie And I leaned over to him. I said, Joel, you don't no longer have to say that you're a musician that dreams of being a storyteller one day.

You're a filmmaker. You're one of us.

Brad:
Welcome to the club. Wow.

Andrew:
And so we tested it, tested off the charts. And uh it's the most crowd pleasing film that we've been a part of since I can only imagine. So really grateful this to be on the journey.

Doug:
They have I mean there's like A plus cinema scores all over the place. Uh but specifically like with my family A plus cinema scores. And that it's kinda th that it's interesting because it's not always the case with Faith films, um that I mean I've got a 21-year-old daughter, I've got an 18-year-old son, 12-year-old son, and they all end up loving them.

We love them together as a family. So how do you how do you choose there's so many amazing stories out there. So how do you choose this is one that we've gotta tell because it resonates with everybody.

How does how does that happen?

Andrew:
You know, the first thing is like I I love the audience because I'm a member of the audience. Like you know, I I have to make a a film that moves my soul first where it's like It's not about making a buck and it's not about just telling a story that's gonna work. It's about like, is this one that fundamentally I cannot get away from?

Like it's something we have to tell. And when something captures your heart, you're right, there's a lot that comes at us every day. I probably get pitched seven to ten times a week.

Uh you know, people having ideas. And Uh and and some are good, but like, you know, the ones that really rise to the top are the ones that are like, oh, that's a story we know how to tell. We know know how to tell true stories that are underdog stories, redemption of the human spirit, and kind of stories that are a rush of hope.

But uh, you know, I uh the the ones in order and uh that's a high compliment saying that you have uh the age gaps within your family that they can all sit down and enjoy the m the movie Kind of I think what we tried to do the best is study what Pixar did back in its heyday with movies like Toy Story and Wally and ones like that. And I I I like the other day we went on a road trip to Florida and I set up my computer in the back of the the vehicle for my kids to watch a show while they're doing it. And my little seven-year-old uh picked a Pixar movie and uh and she and my other daughter were watching it.

Well my teenage son and his friend were in the back just cutting up and you know, not paying attention. But I swear within ten minutes, they're both leaning forward, watching the story, laughing along. It's like, how does that happen that it can connect with adults, teenagers, and kids?

It's it's not because it's an animated movie, it's just because it's good storytelling. Yeah. So as Christians that are filmmakers, we've tried really hard to say how do you capture that approach and finding something that connects on every level.

And I think it comes down to authenticity and it comes into a relatable story that people really can connect with. And uh we work really hard to so when that happens and somebody can say My twenty one year old and my ten year old and my wife all sat down and like this movie together. It's the highest compliment we can have.

Brad:
Oh, good, good. Yeah. I Andrew, they you you're speaking our language here because uh we're all about uh People's stories where we uh talk all the time about people sharing their hope stories, the difference Jesus has made in their life, because that's what builds the bridge.

And I actually see that very much in this movie that through telling the story and and you've done it with other movies as well, it's not w I think there was a stretch where there were a lot of Christian media that was meant to, hey, I want this. We're sitting there saying, hey, I want this to lead my friend to Christ. And what I see with yours is You're you're trying to correct me if I'm wrong here, but I feel like you guys are trying to help build the bridge to the conversation where we're supposed to say Man, did you happen to see, or inviting our friends to see it, and then having a conversation about faith, being able to tie it into Our stories to be able to say, hey, you know the things they struggled with?

I've struggled with some of those in my life. And man, I found hope. And his name is Jesus.

And you guys are committed to doing it with excellence. And that makes a difference. Would you say, is that accurate with your movies that you guys are you want those to be able to be a bridge builder?

Andrew:
Absolutely. Uh I what you're saying is exactly how we I mean y y y not too dissimilar to to what Stryper did back in the day, but it's like the idea of uh how can we find something where we earn the right to be heard. and having enough confidence in what we believe.

And I think the thing that freed me up, because when we started, yeah, you're right. Like most of the faith products that were out there It wasn't that they were right or wrong. They were just different.

They they went right at like we gotta fill in the whole message. And it was a sermon on film and God used that and I'm grateful for the people that did that. But for us, that that wasn't authentically who we were.

And we began to ask like what are we supposed to do? And I think we finally found our voice. I think true stories allowed us to do that in a way that, you know, the Bible says they overcame the enemy by the blood of the Lamb and the power of their testimony.

And there's something about your testimony, what you've lived. The the outside world world doesn't know how to debate. And they're like, oh, it's your personal experience.

Uh you're not here debating dogma. You're here saying, This is what Jesus did for me. And so that gave us a window in.

Second thing was is like who's our audience to reach? And we want to make something that if you're a Christian, you see your beliefs on film. And you can celebrate who you are, not as the bet of the joke, but uh an authentic representation of what a Christian is.

Somebody that's complicated, somebody that has conflict in their life, somebody that's gone through hard times and found hope. And allowed us to do that, but the people that we're trying to reach are what we call benevolent skeptics. So a benevolent skeptic isn't somebody that's hostile towards Christianity.

They just don't know about it and they don't know they need it. And when you can put something that's relatable on film to them and just plant the seed, I don't have to fill in all the details. I don't have to have a sermon.

I don't have to, I just have to plant the simple idea of redemption And once you do that, you just step away and let that kind of take root. And then if I can jam a wedge between somebody's heart and their head, make them feel something, it will begin reverse engineering to challenging their thinking and saying, I want to know more. And so when we did, I can only imagine, and it released there was one theater and somebody posted that something happened, that they were in a theater, and they posted it on social media.

They said It was in Australia, I think, of all places, but they uh they said that they this lady and her son went to go see the movie. And um And they're watching it in the theater and when the credits roll, the the lights come up and there's another woman sitting at the end of the row and she's crying. And she turns to them and she said, Are you guys Christians?

And they said, Yeah, we are. Are you? And the woman was like, I'm not, but whatever happened to Dennis Quaid in that movie, I want my life.

How do I get that?

Speaker 5
Oh, yeah.

Andrew:
And they they walked over and they said, let us tell you how. They filled in the rest of the story. They preached the sermon and then the woman knelt down in the theater and gave her life to Christ.

That's what it's about. It's not my job. My job is just to tell a story.

That creates a window of opportunity where the defenses are down. But when the defenses are down, that's where the church can step in and say, let me tell you about the rest. And sorry if I'm getting on my soapbox, but this is my soapbox.

Doug:
No, that's just so good.

Andrew:
So like you look at Jesus did the same thing. He told master stories that he was a master storyteller and he told parables. Parables did not fill in all of the questions that just engage people emotionally in a way that they could uh they could like be intrigued and pulled in.

You know, it it they talks about like on the road to Emmaus. Like the, you know, the the uh the people he was walking with after he was risen from the dead, they didn't know it was Jesus. And when they realized who he was, he was taken away.

They said, didn't our hearts burn within us while he was talking? It just creates this hunger. But then after Jesus would tell his parables, like it didn't answer all the questions, it would ask the right questions.

Then people would come back to him and say, what did that mean? And he would tell them the rest of the story. We're just the first part.

We're the parables. And that's what God's called us to do.

Brad:
Wow. I mean, some seriously, chills as you're talking about just that moment in the theater and just how God uses these things, because I'm sure that's one of Countless ones that you guys get to hear from folks.

Doug:
Yeah, uh that's uh what you said about people can't argue with your story. I mean that is you know, people i they can argue about religion They can argue about the Bible. They can and there's a place for for apologetics and all that.

But there is Uh the more God's people get that telling their story, um pre Jesus, post Jesus, this is the difference he makes When you get new bad news from the doctor, when there are struggles financially and everything else, the more the kingdom is gonna grow. And uh it doesn't you don't need a professional a professional uh evangelist to be able to speak Jesus into somebody's life. Man, do so do you hear I w you actually started to answer the question I was gonna ask you that story um about the the audience member from I Can Only Imagine, that's incredible.

Do you hear stories like that fairly regularly about how the film was a bridge to someone that that was in the theater may mu may not have expected to meet Jesus there, but he did.

Andrew:
No, definitely. And I think because people people don't really seek out answers until they're really hurting. And then when they're really hurting, where they look for answers, is when somebody has a story that's able to say, this is what helped me.

And uh and I think that's what Jesus provides. And So the stories we look for are are ones where you can't strip the Christianity out. Like it's there, it's embedded, it's part of the DNA of the story, but it's in a way that's earned in somebody's experience.

So like When we did the movie Jesus Revolution, um, you know, my brother it was my brother and Britt McCorker were the filmmakers. I produced it with my partner Kevin and Josh. Um and uh you know when we stepped into that one and my brother wanted to tell that story, we were like, man, this is risky.

It's about the last great revival. It has Jesus in the title. Yeah.

Like this is this is going at the heart of the target. Like how do we make this still aimed at the benevolent skeptic? And the guy as we kind of debated it, the answer was like, well, this is the one moment in time Where Christianity was both overt and it was also counterculture.

It was both, you know, it was both in its purest form and it was also rebellious. And I'm like, that's I mean that's who Jesus was in his time. Uh absolutely is is um he was both inviting and controversial.

It was like it was all those things. A challenge the status quo. And so we're like, let's tell it through that idea of it being counterculture that these weren't bad kids going seeking drugs and and and all these enlightenment things.

These were kids that were Searching for the right answer but in the wrong places. And when the bottom dropped out, they found this legitimate encounter with with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And uh just tell it for what it was.

So when we when we got done with the movie, we showed it to my bosses at Lionsgate and uh and they're not people of particular faith, uh more agnostic uh kind of a at best and but good people. And um and they watched it and my boss at Lionsgate uh came to us and we thought you know we get really a lot of pushback. And I'm not I'm not really scared of the terms they use if I can kind of redefine it.

And they said, guys, this is the most inclusive thing that we've ever seen. And we said, well, what you call inclusive, as Christians, we call evangelism. It's the idea of it is an invitation to broken and hurty hurting and messy people to find hope.

And we find that hope in Jesus. And so that's what it's about. It's an invitation.

And they're like. As a company, I don't think we have a problem with that. They're like, don't change a thing.

And so they let us put that movie out. And that movie led to, you know, we it deals with like the mass baptisms that happen at Pirates Cove. that still exists unchanged in California because it's part of a rock cliff.

And after the movie came out, like God just sparked something. And they had two mass baptisms last year. there during the summer and the first one had forty two hundred people got baptized in one day.

It was the most baptized baptisms in the history, recorded history of the United States. Uh and then they had a second one that was about 3,900. So God just moved in ways as people saw it in the movie and they're like, I want that.

And That's not us, that's God drawing people to himself. We just tried to provide a tool or a conduit to start the conversation.

Doug:
You know, I know Brad's got a question here, but I want to just quickly, uh Jesus Revolution Uh that th I I watched that movie and just saw misconception after misconception about The Christian faith not in a pushy way, not in a told you so way but just very naturally be addressed.

Brad:
Andrew, as we wrap up our time and uh we knew a half hour would go fast. We didn't know it would go this fast. Uh we uh but we want to pray with you before we wrap up. But uh one quick question. If you can give me sixty seconds on Unsung Hero, what you uh hope people will walk away from uh this movie with? What what do you hope they walk away with

Andrew:
You know, in a time where the family gets so beat down by society, I think the most rebellious thing we can do right now is lift up the power of the family. So we end with a quote from Mother Teresa said, if you want to change the world, go home and love your family And uh that's really the heart of this film that I think it especially as men, we get so focused on the calling God has on our life that hey, like we gotta go do this. Men and women.

But sometimes, guys, we're a little bit tone-deaf, and uh we can get so obsessed with the calling that we really lose sight of the purpose. And the calling is not is not, you know, that's not the mission. That's not the dream.

The dream is your family And that's where, you know, I think this this woman, Helen Smallbone, fought for her family, held them together when her husband was having a nervous breakdown, could not, you know, keep his head above water. And then ultimately saw he saw that his family wasn't in the way they were the way. And I think that's the heart of this story, and I think that's what preaches.

Brad:
We're going to wrap up with praying for you and your ministry. If you want to hear more from Andrew, I encourage you check out uh he's got a podcast, The Storytellers, right? You've got some great guests on there.

We're listening to some of that. But uh so check out more from him. Go see the movie and uh Doug is gonna pray for you.

Sixty seconds for us to pray for you and your ministry, Andrew.

Andrew:
I I got as much time as you guys need.

Brad:
Awesome.

Doug:
Heavenly Father, thank you for uh Um this time to g time today. We uh it's it's awesome Lord how um even when we haven't met before today that when you're at the center of relationships, Lord, that um there's a brotherhood right off the bat. We praise you for that.

Uh Lord, this uh this movie is uh important in the sense that uh the kind of hope that only you can give is represented in it So we pray, Lord, that a lot of people see it. Um uh that that um there would be those conversations even in the movie theaters like we heard about with I can only imagine. We pray that friends would maybe bring their friends who might not know you to the movie, that they would share it on social media and even say, hey, this is This is why I felt like this movie really spoke to me.

We just pray for your continued blessing on Andrew and and all the great work he's doing, making a difference in media in the kingdom. We love you and we thank you for this time together In Jesus' name. Amen.

Andrew:
Amen. Appreciate you guys. That was awesome.

Brad:
Thanks again for being with us. Great conversation and really just encouraging to us. Thank you.

Andrew:
Honored. I'd been honored to come back anytime, bud. Awesome.

Doug:
Can you tell us real quick, Michael Sweep? How did it you said casting. We didn't get to it in the podcast, but but how did you cast him or who was it?

Andrew:
That that that is the other for King and Country brother, it's Luke Smallbone No way when I got on set and he had the wig and the I freaked out. I was like I was like, who's playing Michael Sweet? They're like, that's Luke.

I'm like No, really, who's playing Michael Sweet? It's like, it's Luke. Oh my goodness.

The mascara and everything. And I was like, oh my gosh. Wow.

Brad:
Wow, that is awesome. We'd love to talk with you more, but hey, we're praying for this and we're I I believe this is gonna break whatever budget you guys had. I think this is gonna do amazing for you guys and uh praying it will.

Andrew:
Thanks, bud. Appreciate you guys

Brad:
Well thanks once again to our special guest, Andrew Irwin, and uh we are praying for his team for this movie Go check out uh the storytellers podcast and uh make sure you go see the movie Unsung Hero Tell a Friend.

Speaker 5
So from all of us, all of you, until next time, go Matt