Sharing Your Hope through Movies: An Interview w/ "Light of the World" Director John Schafer

Brad:
Welcome back everyone to another special episode of Go Mad with Doug and Brad, Jesse's Of course, behind the controls once again, but today's gonna be a little different. This is as we mentioned earlier this summer, we have some special guests that were coming up, and this is one we have been looking forward to. uh for a while because it is a uh about a great movie that's coming out, but also the heart behind it.

Um we uh do have season five of the podcast launching soon, but this is really just kind of a bonus special episode. Doug, we've been watching some of these movies that have been coming out in theaters. Uh there's a lot more Christian content coming out.

Doug:
Well, faith-centered media projects. I mean they're really on a roll. I mean the the chosen of course the King of Kings movie a few months ago breaking box office records That role really continues, uh, we think with this uh new light of the world animated film coming to theater September 5th.

I'm personally excited about this movie. First of all, just because of how incredible it looks. I'm I'm a uh uh movie guy, a movie buff, and I just I was blown away, especially I saw this Shane and Shane uh video and just even a clip of Jesus walking on water and the underwater viewpoint and just it it's just so creative, so good.

But also excited because it's using a unique perspective to tell the story. We'll get in into that in a minute, something you haven't seen before. And super excited because there is a natural way for God's people to use this movie.

Yeah, we're gonna get to that because it is it is so key. Uh, that's what we this is all about ambassadorship. September fifth, circle it.

I'm bringing my family, bring yours. Don't wait for streaming on this. This is how great movies like this continue get to be that's right to be made and in the theaters.

Brad:
And let's face it, people don't want to hear from us today. That's not ri people aren't tuning into this. They want to hear that's right from John and Rebecca Schaefer. John and Rebecca Welcome to the Go Mad with Doug and Brad Podcast.

John
Oh, thank you guys for having us.

Rebekah
Yeah, it's good to be here.

Brad:
Now, John, just to uh let people know, uh John actually, if anyone has uh is around my age Which I'm not going to say what that is, but if you're around my age, you remember Superbook. And John had a key role as senior producer on CBN Superbook. Rebecca is uh giving voice to Mary in Light of the World and uh they are also married.

So it goes well uh together. I'm not sure if it all worked out smoothly working together on the project, but we are grateful to that both of you could join us today. Um I had a brief opportunity to connect with uh John and Brennan who's with uh the Salvation Poem Project and Uh also Kyle from uh their organization.

Uh this was at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. We go there every year. We have a lot of media ministry and One of the things I saw was light of the world was going to be shown there.

And I was like, man, if I even get a couple minutes to bump into those guys, I would love to just talk to them because I've been following along with uh when this is coming out And there I was. Uh I think I may have frightened them slightly. Uh they had just arrived.

They were going to get set up and they got bodyguards now, just because They probably did, but I but it was so it was great because I got a few minutes to sit down with you guys and what I want people to know, what I want our listeners to know Is that what I got to see in a brief time with them is John, I got to see your heart. And I got to hear some of your heart and that this isn't a project that is about Making money. This isn't a project that is about getting your name out there.

This is a project to point people to Jesus. And I absolutely love that. Um, I wanted to ask you though, real quick, John, to get a little of your story.

I heard on another podcast, and I'd love it if you would share it here. You and Charlie Brown have a little bit of a connection.

John
Absolutely. You know, back you know, my mother is uh she's Japanese, so she's Buddhist. My father was Christian Science.

And so uh that's kind of the world I lived in as a a young boy. And it was in nineteen seventy-three I was watching the we watched as a family the Charlie Brown Christmas special And uh when Linus was explaining uh to Charlie Brown what the true meaning of Christmas was, it was the first time I had ever heard the word savior or the word God. Wow.

And so uh I asked my parents what did that mean, and they really didn't give me an answer. It wa and that stuff. But what I did do is uh that Christmas I wanted a nativity for Christmas and so my parents bought me a nativity set that I had and uh that was probably my first entry to hear about who this Jesus in God was, or I mean not Jesus but s uh savior in God.

Wow. And uh and for me I never got that answer and it was a a lifelong journey to finally when I found out who that was, what the purpose was and I'd always thought to myself, if I've ever given an opportunity to tell that story I wanted to make sure that the audience would if if they would not have a question of a shadow of a doubt who Jesus was. They wouldn't have to ask someone.

They would know from from the story we told.

Doug:
So the seed was planted for this movie how many years ago? I mean when you're basically when you're a child.

John
That's amazing.

Brad:
Hey, that's I was born nineteen seventy three. There we go. Now everyone knows how old you are.

Where you came into knowing hearing about God the first time through 2D animation. And then all of a sudden there's Superbook was not 2D, uh, but now you're Co-directing this movie that is 2D animation. I love that full circle nature of things.

Um, why the 2D animation? What was the uh

Doug:
How do you think that's for folks who are listening, uh two D meaning it's well I uh two tell us, John, what's the difference between what we're typically seeing these days and two Dr.

John
So today we see a lot of stuff with uh computer graphics, CG uh imagery and uh And 2D is more of the traditional hand drawn, like back if you look at Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid and that. So that's your traditional 2D. And so uh for us We love 2D animation. When everyone asks us why did you guys do it in 2D and uh they're waiting for this really amazing answer, it's like We love it.

And that's that that's it. We love 2D. And there's something about 2D that's very timeless, very enduring and enchanting. It it won't age out.

And So for us as a ministry, we really felt strongly that, hey, one, we wanted this medium. One of the things that I presented to Brennan McPherson, who's our producer and the president of Salvation Poem Project, and Matt McPherson, who's our executive producer, is um when you kinda present when you want to retell the story of Jesus, I want it to be like a children's storybook come to life. So it had that artistly, painterly feel to it, all the little nuance of the brush strokes, and that's a type of feel and

Brad:
Really felt that 2D was the way we could achieve that. And John, I have to tell you, you guys nailed that. Now I know, uh for those who maybe don't know, I want to give a brief plug here for the movie because it is Absolutely amazing.

It is the the 2D animation is top notch, which not surprising when you've got uh for those who don't know the Bancroft B brothers, just pause right now, just uh pause the podcast, go see what they've done because you will be encouraged. uh because they have created some of the most memorable characters for Disney 2D animation from Pumba and Kronk and Uh Mulan and all these different characters, Mushu. An amazing team for this movie.

My goodness. For you to work with them for that teamwork. Y what I can say is that people will not go to this movie.

If you bring friends, which you should, if you bring family, you will not leave there saying, Oh man, that was cheesy. You won't leave there saying, man, that wasn't Very good. It is 2D animation that is top-notch.

The story is told beautifully, which we'll get into kind of some of the storytelling, but Doug, we are people that truly believe in if you're gonna do something, do it with excellence.

Doug:
Yeah, you know, uh 2D animation i it just gives you there's a richness and a character to it that I don't know that the com the best computer graphics can do. So guys, a few months ago the King of Kings movie surprises a lot of people. Um breaking the record for an opening weekend.

We're praying for that kind of weekend for light of the world September fifth. Um and and uh for a it for a faith based animated film, uh it made like nineteen million dollars, won a great box office Uh I think that that tells us, continues to tell us from the chosen and that and lots of other examples that there is a hunger for this, there is an audience for Um for well done, gonna get to that in a second, for really well done faith-based um films i in the theater. I've seen the trailer, um, almost a million views.

Probably half of those were from me. Uh no, no, it's that that's that's a good sign. Um by the way, I caught that we're gonna need a bigger boat Jaws reference.

John
That's Jaws, right? Tell me that you did that on purpose. There is lots of movie reference in there. There really are.

Doug:
I love it. That's so great. Saw the Shane and Shane video Um and song, beautiful song, go check that out. Um, and glimpses of just the highest end animation.

Brad:
Uh now I have to say the difference with the King of Kings Uh well now, John Rebecca, this is kinda both of you there because the uh you look at King of Kings and they went All in on CGI and they went all in with the with the voices. It's like, well, you're gonna know Pierce Brosnan and you're gonna know all these different voices. You guys your goal was to tell the story with excellence. So Rebecca, let me ask you, as you were As John's working on this and everything, uh how did you first get involved with kind of being some of the voice talent for it?

Rebekah
Well, actually I was just doing a favor for the studio and reading some scratch lines so that the animators could put the animatic together. I didn't find out till m months later that They had decided to go with my lines because I have a very unique ability to wail And sigh and weep, which you'll see when you watch the film on September fifth. Um but yeah, so that's really how that happened.

John
Yeah, so everyone asks me like oh, it's just because she's your actually we just used her for the scratch track. not realizing like later, you know, months and months down the road, uh Tony Bancroft who was our head of story and Jason Heaton was the other head of story, they reached out to me and our editor or Rob that said, hey We actually think R Rebecca's the right person to do that. You know, the emotions are real. The cry is it doesn't feel forced. It's very heartfelt and emotional and in order to make this really work at the end for the especially during the crucifixion, we we want we want to use her and I thought at first like It was a weird moment for me, but uh but yeah, we you know, everyone was requesting.

Brad:
She nailed it. She really you brought a depth and a richness. uh to Mary and uh let's talk about Mary for a second here because I mean so so this is not a small task.

Doug:
Uh there's so many directions you can go as a voice actress. Yeah, no pressure playing Mary. Yeah, no pressure at all.

No. Yeah, uh nothing iconic there. But so many directions you can go artistically. How did you prepare for the role and and maybe what are some of your favorite do you have some favorite Mary moments in in the movie?

Rebekah
Yeah, um honestly how I prepared for the role is I imagined What it would be, I mean, Jesus, yeah, he's the light of the world and he's the savior, he's the messiah, but that was her son She's a mom. She wasn't just a part, you know, a character in the story. Like she was his mother.

She poured into him. She raised him. She nurtured him.

She guided him. She put herself into him as a mother does and I put myself in her shoes or tried to anyways um with my son and imagined what would I do if that was my son up there. How would I respond?

And that's why it's so r I'm gonna cry. That's why it's so real and so raw, to be honest, because I was imagining what it would be like as a mother watching your son, even though you prepared for it your whole life, she knew what the prophecies foretold. She knew what Jesus came to do.

But nothing can prepare you for

Doug:
Witnessing of Mary.

Brad:
Is there a uh moment that stuck out to you from just kind of Playing that part, uh voicing Mary?

Rebekah
Yeah, it's a s it's a small moment, but for me it um it was really huge when they're pulling his b body off the cross and they kind of lay him in her arms and she's cradling his head, you know, here and I imagined She had done that hundreds of times before, and she just leaned down and whispered so lovingly and reverently, Jesus. And that moment for me, like it it broke me because that was her baby boy and she knew what had just happened, but that was her son. And

Doug:
I I'm wondering how you guys what decisions you had to make. I always wonder this when they're made when when uh the crucifixion is being uh is being portrayed. And i it's an animated film. I saw a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a Yeah, you know kids are going to see that. Jesus is beat up in it, and you know there's the reality of it, and at the same time, it's BG. Um

John
I would say that was the most challenging because of uh how were we gonna handle it 'cause obviously we want this to be a family film, we want children to see this and ultimately we wanna want children around the world to see it. And so it was really uh it was a huge team effort. It you know, I wish, you know, Tom and I Our team makes Tom and I look really good as directors.

They work with us to kind of help us restage, reframe stuff. So right when you're about to see that nail piercing to Jesus' wrist how John's head turns so it it takes the audience away from it. But you what you don't see there but what you see in John's expression That's weighty there.

So we did a lot of things like that. Uh if you watch the film again when you get a chance to watch the film or vi visit see it again. We made sure all the lash marks and everything, uh, they were more of a dark red so it didn't look like that open fresh wound because we had to keep this So it didn't get PG thirteen, 'cause if it got PG thirteen, it starts to isolate your audience and limit it.

So there's only one scene, one moment where there's one bright drop of blood and it's right when Jesus dies and then that one single drop, the camera follows it all the way down. And that's the one I felt like, hey, if we're gonna make anything red bright Let's do it with that. And to show also the power of just what one single drop did.

You know, it wasn't about all of just discouraging everything he went through. The power of just that one drop and and that's why we went that direction. But like If you watch when the uh the s uh soldier, the temple guard gets his ears cut off, you know, you know, we never show it.

We we we had to restage a lot of stuff. But uh we really felt like w you know, we did it justice to show what Jesus went through or what anyone else who got harmed in the film, but in a way that this could be seen by a child. Uh obviously a a parent would have to really kind of explain certain things to a child about what's going on opposed to what they're seeing.

Brad:
But I think let me address that so any parent that's watching this, listening to this right now knows that the way you guys did handle it, um it will lead to questions and that's good. They the way you did it was not graphic, but you also didn't shy away from letting people feel that emotion and the the the f uh how that does impact us. So I know children will have questions, but to the parents out there or grandparents that might take your kids Don't let that keep you from seeing it because the reality of what Jesus went through, you can only tone that down so much.

I mean, I've seen it tone down too much at times and this You guys that I I now want to just watch the movie with you and Tom and Tony. John I just want to watch with you guys to know the different decisions you make because that's fascinating. Um One decision you did make, and I I want to get to John in just a second.

Uh Doug and I wanted to ask about the character of John because pivotal in this. But one of the things that uh I wanted to just let you know Is greatly appreciated by us. We work in uh our ministry, one key part of it is working with Native American young people.

And they stand uh they do I just got back from spending a month with them where they Tell about the hope they found in Jesus. And one of the key things for so long I in Native America it's been told it's the white man's God. And what they stand on basketball courts and say, now I might get emotional on this one, uh is that he wasn't white, he was a Mediterranean Jew, he was darker skinned, he looked more native than he w does like me and to see that Jesus represented in this animated film.

I know we've seen over and over again how Jesus is portrayed and he it can be powerful, but The number of times that he looks like closer to what he probably looked like. And so for all these characters to be more brown-skinned, to have some of the facial features of that region. I don't know what all the decisions were made along the way, but that is one of the most powerful ones for me that you could have made because it relates and it's it's true.

It's true to God's word. of who these people were. So thank you guys.

That's just a thank you. There's not really a question there other than thank you guys for doing that.

John
No, it's something that we really felt important and especially with Jesus. you know, when we designed our film and that stuff, uh, we really wanted the uh you know, not just the uh ethnicity to come through, but also w the shape language of what things look like. So if you look at all the Jewish characters in the film their shape language is actually based off the Hebrew character sets, the different curls, the uh stuff swirls and all the stuff.

So we base that all the Romans are literally based off the character sets of the Greek the Greek character s signs like that. So We even considered shape language. When you look at the color palette of our film, what we did is uh our art director went to uh went into Israel and studied all the different color spices.

in the markets and what we really realized those same color spices are the same colors around the world whether you're in India, China and all that. And so we thought, huh Hey, this color palette could be a connective tissues to all regions of the world. And so we're trying to make this for a global audience.

So everything in our film is very intentional it w you know and the process from designs, colors, the way the animation style And really uh we put all our emotions and everything into the eyes and that stuff. So if when you watch the film, the eyes do speak. And and we did that purposefully Because this is going to be translated in so many languages and so s we really need the eyes and those expressions to resonate across cultures.

Brad:
So you you mentioned the intentional decisions. Talk to us about John, the character of John, his age, um just uh what led to the the choice. Uh he's a for those who have not seen trailers yet, he is a young teenager. In the movie.

John
Yeah, so early on, uh uh Brennan and I when we were doing a lot of the research, you know, we were started reading some historians, theologians were They believed that the disciples were probably in their upper teenage years, uh, Peter probably being the oldest in his early to mid-20s. And so we started thinking, Let's go from that approach. And so we and we looked at John being the youngest, we thought with John, let's make him 13 and in that culture he's coming into adulthood. This is someone trying to find himself.

This is kind of a a coming-of-age film if you if you kind of look at the way the film is set up. It's that coming of age film. He he's got goals he wants to do, but also at the same time he's placed his family in a dilemma and so he's gotta s you know, seek out this Messiah, this story that his mother told him all his life and you know to to see if if this if one, if the Messiah is real, two, if the Messiah can help.

And and the the biggest thing with John is he is the one who's he's kind of been a f in the front row seat of Jesus' ministry and he was the only one at the cross. So we really felt like John was the right person and make him young where you're watching it through his eyes of the life of Jesus, but also John is our audience. So when we made this film, we made it for everyone to watch.

That's why we want everyone to come see it. But we wrote it in a way that if you had no concept of the guy of the gospel. You had no concept of Jesus, or maybe a misconception of Jesus that uh you could watch it through John's eyes.

So when John starts to believe he's the Messiah Then all of a sudden Jesus might say something completely different and it makes him question it. That's our audience. He's believing, he's not believing, he's not trusting, he is trusting, and And we wanted that for the audience, so we wanted the audience to connect with John.

And it was most important too, if they connected with John and you watch John fall in love with Jesus. that by the time when ge when John's heart is just shattered watching what's happening to Jesus during the crucifixion, the audience would be crushed. Because the goal was when we I talked with the team and that stuff of If the audience is not crushed by the end toward the end of the film in that one third part of that third act, we didn't do our job because we need to show a friendship between John and Jesus and and that they could feel it.

Brad:
Mm. You you guys did such a great job with that. I it was an intriguing choice and I think it really worked uh to tell this story. So I'm I'm glad you guys went that way with John with his age and and seeing things through his eyes.

Doug:
I know um we need to wrap up here in a minute. I wish we could talk with you all longer, but um I'm just I'm just imagining that you guys really uh sense the Holy Spirit at times during this just leading because some of these decisions are really difficult to make and um I I I'm I'm excited about this idea. You know, y you picturing uh uh uh John as a child seeing something that was new to him that that stirred him up um to ask more questions. And and I think of the the adults and the children that will be watching this movie and and have the same emotions going, I need to learn more about this. So obviously believers are gonna love this movie, but I from what I have read and what Brad has told me, this is not just made for believers. Um

Brad:
This is i so based on the salvation poem was check out six short lines to tell about Jesus.

Doug:
How how might a person who doesn't yet know Jesus, we talk about on this podcast all the time, ambassadorship and our responsibility to be Jesus to people, to to share Jesus, to introduce people uh to their savior. So how might a person who doesn't yet know Jesus respond to this movie. I is there something deeper here? How do you how could this be a tool for the end of the film

John
spoiler alert, you know. Uh there is we do do a call to action and it's something very unique. It's something we felt strongly about and there's something that you'll see what John does to lead someone.

to Jesus, but at the very end of the film we actually have it's a kind of like what Marvel does with her pre-credits. We have our pre-credit moment. But it is really if you want to learn more about Jesus we give that opportunity in the film right there.

And the other thing is I really just feel so strongly that this is such a strong outreach program. This movie is fun. It's entertaining.

You're gonna see Jesus in a different way. You're gonna see receive the gospel in a different way. And I think if you've ever felt uncomfortable about sharing the gospel with a friend or a coworker or or a f extended family member, this is that non-threatening entrying point where you can take 'em because it's a fun movie.

And uh and it's entertaining and then that's where it's kind of uh you know, our film is like if Disney was to make a movie about the life of Jesus in the nineties This is that movie without the musical numbers, you know.

Brad:
Oh, I love that. I love that. And Rebecca, what would you say if you don't mind me asking, what's what are you most excited about with the the impact of this movie?

When you look at how this could impact people 'cause I love what you were saying there, John. And it it the fact you guys included it it might be the part I was most emotional about actually watching the movie was a chance for people to really respond. A lot of Christian media th not knocking it, they kind of set the stage, but they don't give people that chance.

That's in this movie. I mean there's a there's a hey, what do I do with Jesus? Rebecca, what would you say?

What's something you're really excited about with the impact of this movie?

Rebekah
Um just it it is an evangelistic tool in and of itself. And I've never seen a film that has a call to action that in such a unique way as this film has. Um and it's a personal story too.

Um but just to kind of personalize it, you know, we moved halfway across the country to be part of this mission. And what I see where it started and where it's at right now to see the story and the film come to life it just gives me so much joy because I know that we were supposed to do what we did and it was hard to do, but I know that it's gonna change lives all around the world. And that gives me a lot of joy to have been a part of that.

Doug:
Wow. I and uh I just I Bring your friends, your family, if they know Jesus, if they don't, you can be confident bringing them to this awesome this light of the world and if you're right. September fifth.

And I I wanna say something real quick to our folks listen, if you're thinking Well, I just saw an animated Jesus movie theater a a few months ago. This is a very the they are two different films, two di different perspectives, yet they're both about Jesus. But uh from John's perspective it they look different.

They it i I would just encourage you make sure you go and see this again in the theaters. Don't wait for streaming. Streaming is nice But streaming does not get more of these super high quality, amazing movies made.

You gotta go and even if you can't afford the popcorn, go buy the tickets, go to the movie in the theater.

Brad:
And if you are part of a church I mean buy out the seats for showings. Buy out the seats for showings, make it a church thing because you could take your church to see it, take some of the key people in your church, and then have them bring others to it because it really is that much of a tool. I won't say which I I've I've watched both of the animated movies that have come out this year, uh or the one that is coming out as well.

Um And I won't say which I like better because I'm not sure I'm supposed to. However, 2D animation tells a story in a way and you connect with it in a very uh personal way. And My daughter is uh studying animation at college.

She is uh and I I know through it the power that there is in telling a story through animation, not just because it connects with all age ranges, but it connects internationally. There is something you can do through animation that you can't through typical media. And when you see this movie, you'll see and I know that it's part of the heart of the Salvation Poem Project to get this international as well, to have this be an international storytelling tool.

And you can see that they kept it simple enough, but real enough and deep enough. It's simple enough yet deep enough at the same time that it can be used in a very powerful way, not just here. but around the world.

And uh so I I agree with what both of you were saying that the impact of this can be something really special. You guys didn't go with uh Huge studio or anything like that to distribute it. You are counting on just people saying, Hey, this is important.

We need to be able to have this and it's great and it's done with excellence. And even we didn't even get to scratch the surface on The music and where I if I can ask you real quick, John, where was the soundtrack, where was this recorded?

John
So we did it in Budapest and two days after we recorded in Budapest, that's when I went to NRB. So That's why I wasn't probably too startled about the stalker after me.

Brad:
There we go And it and it the soundtrack is beautiful.

John
Oh, and the soundtrack real quick here, you know, we love the movies. So like uh the soundtrack is inspiration from Alex who I worked with Mackenzie who's our uh our com of composer you know, I'm inspired by anything of the eighties and nineties of John Williams and we put that in there. The ending literally we you should do another podcast where we could talk about the inspirations. Like the ending of the film is literally the ending of E. T.

Brad:
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. No, I now I've got to watch in bikes. There are no bikes, no butt.

Doug:
Oh my goodness.

Brad:
Well that is awesome.

Doug:
This has been a a real honor uh to uh speak with you guys. This just is an amazing work of art. It's fun, it's funny, it's powerful. Do you guys uh do you guys have a moment for us to pray with you about the impact of this film?

John
Yeah, absolutely.

Doug:
Heavenly Father, we are uh Just honored, excited to um speak with a brother and sister in Christ here so passionate about the gospel, so passionate about bringing it with excellence. Uh to the world. Lord, a lot of people are going to see this.

They're going to see it in the theater. They're going to see it in streaming, all on phones for a lot of years. We just somehow you know all the people that will see it and and you Lord will be the one that is um drawing Uh every person that watches this, Lord, that that if they're going to be drawn to to the gospel, to you, you're going to have to do it.

We pray you would do that for every person. that watches this film. We pray for amazing word of mouth.

We pray that uh the film would do really well. A lot of people would see it. Um just because for your glory, Lord, so that um more people can be introduced to how awesome you are or be reminded.

of it. So um we just we just pray for um these coming days where I'm sure John and Rebecca have a lot of other things they're tending to to um to help this go smoothly Uh, we pray September 5th would be a miraculous day uh at the movies, that theaters would be full. of churches, lost people, saved people, excited to see this film.

Brad:
In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. John and Rebecca, thank you for joining us and uh to our listeners here and all of us all those checking us out on YouTube, you know until next time, go mad