Navigating Graduation and Family Change (with Pastor Ted Cunningham)

Brad:
On today's episode of Go Mad with Doug and Brad, Doug gets to sit down with Pastor Ted Cunningham and talk about changing seasons, specifically today talking about when you have That young person that's graduating, leaving home, empty nest, and whether you are walking through that right now or you know someone who is you want to make sure you stay tuned for helpful tips of how to go mad.

Jesse:
Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast. First of all, congratulations to all graduates of college, high school, kindergarten, and everything in between. Graduation season is a time where a lot of families are feeling the effects of transition in the home.

And who better to guide us through this unique time than Pastor Ted Cunningham You'll hear more about Ted in today's interview, but if you'd like to help us further the Go Mad movement, please leave a review or rate and subscribe on whatever platform you use. Now, if you want to crank up pomp and circumstance in the background That's okay with us. Let's go mad.

Brad:
Welcome back to another episode of Go Mad with Doug and Brad. We've got Jesse back there too.

Doug:
Jesse! Mac Jesse has that great man bun he's rocking on the top of it. Dumpling now I'm hungry. I tried to do one of those for myself this morning and I realized I don't really have enough hair.

Brad:
No, it it hurts if you try it without it. Now guys, I have a little bit of a confession to make.

Doug:
Are you ready? James, confess your sins to one another and you will be healed. Is that what's going on here?

Brad:
It was I don't think it's a sin, but um we're saying I'm sorry, go ahead. Recently We took our first visits to colleges with my daughter. Oh, I remember that.

She is one year away from graduating and she's got it narrowed down to just a couple of schools. And uh I I'm gonna be honest. Everyone's like, Brad, you're freaking out.

I'm like, I'm not, but I can tell I will be. I'm like, I'm excited about the college visits because it's like cool I get to be part of this with her. And then I'm like But this is where she's gonna leave me.

Doug:
This was like I was going through this about five years ago with our first daughter and I remember I was like Nah, honey, it's gonna be a little different there, so try not to be all over the place emotionally. Yeah, that was me.

Brad:
No doubt. I'm sure it will get to that point very soon. Now, I just wish If we could have someone that we could talk to who's walked through this and has some good advice, like How to, you know, have influence in a young person's life and into your sons and daughters' lives. I just wish we had someone that could help us with that.

Doug:
I'm not sure how to say this we do. Wha yeah, I got to talk with Pastor and author and comedian and everything else extraordinaire, Pastor Ted Cunningham. Oh yeah.

And uh it was a it's a fantastic conversation. Um, you are going to want to stick around and listen to this. Whether you're in this season or not, maybe you've got a grandchild or a child that's headed towards being out of the home or already is or you know somebody you definitely know someone a a family member a co-worker that's walking through this, it can be a pretty tough experience.

I mean I ev I remember when when I was a kid and we were headed towards my graduation And and uh, you know, after seven years of high school, it was time to move on. Definitely. And um And I'm still thankful still to Mr. Bundy that that he gave me that seat.

Well he did me a big favor.

Brad:
Well I gotta say, uh the I am excited that we had this opportunity. Doug sat down, with Ted Cunningham and we got to hear some from his heart and I can guarantee you you're gonna want to grab your phone to take notes or pen and paper, however you do it. Make sure you're ready to take notes because there is a lot of wisdom and knowledge that's about to be dropped on us right here in this interview. Doug and Ted, take it away. Let's do this.

Doug:
Man, we are so pumped to have the guest we have this week. Uh I have the the great luxury of having a dad that knows how to communicate some of the real hard truths in scripture. She ha has an amazing ability to communicate God's truth in a way that people can understand it.

That also is the reality, the truth of my pastor, Ted Cunningham. Ted uh has been the pastor, head pastor of Woodland Hills Family Church, an amazing church in Branson, Missouri for 21 years. He's part of something called the date night comedy tour.

Keep an eye out. It it travels nationally and is hilarious. You're gonna want to check that out.

He's been doing that for eight years. He's got a best-selling book called Fun Loving You. He's got a book out right now called Love That Laughs, Lighten Up.

And then hopefully get a chance to talk a little bit about the one coming out in September, Greater Joy Together. It's a 52-week devotional Ted, I am reading these titles and looking at the name of the church, and uh I'm starting to get a sense that you care about family.

Ted:
Yeah. Yeah, Doug, it's so good to be with you. All uh my my first question is where's Brad? Where's Brad?

Doug:
Why's Brad not on here? We're not sure. He w he was heard from eight eight days ago in uh Tijuana and that was the last that was the last we heard. So we're really open to track him down after the podcast today.

Ted:
Okay. All right. So I always love coming on here.

Doug:
So we are in graduation season right now. I'm not sure when you're listening to the podcast, but Um, we're in graduation season. I had my daughter graduate um high school a couple years ago.

My son is seventeen, my daughter, my other son is eleven. And uh so they're getting close to that time as well. Ted actually had uh his son Carson uh just graduated what uh just a few days ago and Ted did Corinne your daughter did she graduate a couple of years ago?

Ted:
Yeah, she graduated uh yeah a few years ago and uh Carson graduated last last week so we are One week with him out of high school and then all summer we're preparing to take him to Liberty University for his freshman year.

Doug:
Now is this an empty nest for you yet?

Ted:
Yep, not until August, though. He's still here and we're taking a we got a missions trip to go on. We're gonna take a summer family. Vacation, so beautiful. We're gonna make the most of our time.

Doug:
We're gonna talk about that, making the most of our time with our kids in just a second here. And and I'm Ted, I'm gonna ask you about how you're preparing for empty nest or how how our friends that are listening can prepare for an empty nest they're headed towards. So with graduation season here, lots of families are dealing with the reality of their sons and daughters moving on to college or maybe moving out of college.

Uh maybe you're listening today and that's not your real reality. And you go, Well Mine's gonna graduate in a few years or mine did it did years ago. But we all have people that we love that are moving on with their kids, i they're in times of transition and it can be a lot trickier than we realize, especially when it's happening and we go, Oh my goodness, I I feel like I'm out of time.

How did where did all the time go? Um what do I do now? Uh like I mentioned, our first one, Noelle, graduated a couple years ago.

She is in college now. I still remember, Deb, you gotta be honest with me, man. How how was your uh what was your emotion level like?

Because when we dropped Noelle off at college and we were leaving, I'm like, no, honey? I don't want you to get too emotional. Don't don't make a scene.

All your friends are here. She was like, okay, dad, I'm fine, and I am blubbering. Like I think with my sons I might be more like see you later guys but with her with my daughter it was just like this can't be happening.

So what was your emotion level like? Were you were you pretty even killed there?

Ted:
No, my word is numb. I was pretty numb. And uh my daughter got married last year pretty numb.

Like I I just Amy would find me standing in her bedroom Just kind of standing there looking around the room and yeah, it's just uh there's a I would say an emptiness, like, you know, something you You carried all these years and you invested so much into and they're doing exactly what you wanted, right? They're going in the direction you want them to go in. They're not supposed to be with mom and dad forever.

So they need to leave at some point. Uh but it it just happened fast. And y you know, you you don't really have time in the moment to process it.

You can be emotional. I think when we dropped Carson off I think the difference with Corinne is she got married and stayed in town, so it wasn't like we were saying goodbye. But but the relationship was changing.

I think that's what gets a lot of parents. It's a couple things are happening. One The relationship's changing when your children leave home.

Two, if they leave town and they're far away, you go from seeing each other every day and talking every day to maybe a text message here or there We have no issues with our daughter communicating with us, but I have already explained my son we will need a sign of life text from you once a day. I I I've talked to my friends who sent sons off to college and it's like getting them to let you know they're doing well and the li the phone calls are short. Like you haven't talked to your kids for a couple days and you call and it's a three minute call.

And I think that's the difference is of of our sons and daughters, but uh don't have any issue with the connection with my daughter. She's uh very connected to home and We love her husband, so it'll be different with Carson, I know.

Doug:
I've been in kind of the same boat here because um well uh the other day I was jumping up and down in the other room and and I'm all excited. I'm like, honey, honey, you gotta come here. She's like, what?

Is everything okay? What's going on? I said, look.

We got a text from Noelle from college. She she says she loves me and she misses me. And I I would I was like I was like never so happy to see a text Well a Ted so I have seen one of the one of the most amazing ways I've ever heard this described And got me really, really thinking, and I'm sure lots of others too.

I've seen you illustrate how we have a certain amount of weeks with our kids by actually using marbles in a jar that represent Um the weeks we have, uh how do you phrase it, Ted? What um how many how many times around the sun that we have with our kids? What is talk to us about the the marbles in a jar, what that's all about and how it might pertain to getting ready for a kid a child to move on to adulthood someday.

Ted:
Yeah, I got it sitting right here. You're not gonna be able to see it listening, but you're gonna hear it.

Doug:
Ooh It's a beautiful sound.

Ted:
Listen, no, it's a sad sound because I mean it was I mean we're talking this thing's a foot tall, I don't know, maybe maybe eleven inches tall. And um I mean it at one point had over nine hundred marbles in it And each marble represents a week that we had with Carson. So on the lid, we've got Carson's name across the top.

And what we tell parents is we want you to open this every Every week, pull out a marble and think about making the most of time for that week. What are you going to do to be intentional with discipleship in the home? Quality time together, and just enjoying, being together.

Even. And the thing I love, and we added years ago, on the side of the jar, at the very top we have the word control, and at the bottom we have the word influence. And what we tell parents is, and this is my only corny dad joke, but you're gonna laugh, Doug, because you appreciate that joke.

Doug:
I'm a corny dad, so that's right.

Ted:
And we say as you lose your marbles Anyway, uh you are going from control to influence. So when we hand this to a a family dedicating a child at Woodland Hills Family Church, it'll say, you know Johnny, uh 923 marbles. Well, it it depends on whatever age the child is that's being dedicated.

And we say this is how much time you have left with before your child's 18 and leaves home. uh or what we just put eighteen on it as an age of adulthood and we say uh you know make the most of time but keep in mind this three month old or six month old whatever age they're at dedicated um this is the most control you'll ever have Right? And with every day, with every week, with every year, you're losing control.

And hopefully you're replacing control with influence. What's one of the biggest mistakes we make as parents? We treat our children like children right up until the very day we expect them to be adults.

And that that's a problem. I I parenting is a journey from control to influence and I want now with Carson you know three weeks left in the home. I have very little control.

When he asks me questions about his life and you know We're at that season where he's asking permission to do this or permission to do that and I'm like that's up to you Carson. What are you gonna do? There are times it's funny But it's a heavier question he'll ask me and I'll say hey you make that call and he goes oh don't you put this pressure on me like well The point is that it needs to be on you, right?

Because that's adulthood, making decisions for your life. And I want my kids to leave home ready for the responsibility of work, relationships, fully embracing their own faith, and And this is why Jim Burns, my friend in California, wrote a great book called Doing Life with Your Adult Children. It's all about influence because that's all you have with adult children is influence.

If you want to squander influence, take back control. If you if you if if you want to lose influence with your adult children, try to control them. And and so his book is called Doing Life with Your Adult Child, but the subtitle alone is worth the price of the book.

And it's simply this. Keep the welcome mat out and your mouth shut.

Jesse:
Wow.

Ted:
If you want influence with your adult child, keep your mouth shut and the welcome mat out. And I tell I tell people all the time, I don't have a problem with my mouth. It's my face.

My face is the problem. My nonverbal scream. That's not how I would do it.

My nonverbal scream. What were you thinking? That is not at all the way you should be doing.

But that I want influence. And I I've heard a CEO a couple months ago say uh the true true sign of success as a parent. isn't seen till later in life when your adult children want to spend time with you.

That's how that's how you know you've transitioned well from control to influence.

Doug:
Ted, see the thing is that that that is a ton of wisdom. But, you know, it as a parent myself, it it sometimes seems easier, these little bur you know, maybe you get upset with a child or something and and you you go I'm uh the when they're little, two years old and and you say, Okay, I've got to control their behavior now, but winning a heart Influence is a lot more difficult. It takes a lot more time and intentionality.

What's something that we can do while our our kids and maybe even when they've moved on into the world or to college or whatever, but especially when they're still in the home, what can we do to win their heart versus um exerting control over them? Is it is it helping them love the word of God more? Is it spending extra time with them and and having longer conversations about how to make decisions and and your own experience and those things.

How how can we do that? How can we how can we best Uh how can we know we're on the right track to to uh winning the heart versus winning their behavior?

Ted:
Well that I mean that is probably one of the best ways I've ever heard that question worded Doug, truly, that is so good because to me, it's what I wrote Corinne in the letter. I gave her a letter on the day of her wedding. Yeah, this home will always be a soft place to land.

Oh wow. And uh Yeah, I want my kids to know that. I want to be there.

If you get in trouble, if there's if there's a something happens, uh you you need to know I'm a phone call away. And this I will be a soft place to land. You can trust me.

I care for you. I love you. You know, I I have I have given them it's it's interesting, Carson and I right now are meeting once a week.

We go out for breakfast to read through the Gospel of John.

Doug:
Oh so and

Ted:
And uh, you know, we want to, we just want to, we decided that I think in January or February that we wanted to just get through the gospel of John before he went to liberty. And And you know, he's asking me questions, and you know, I'm discipling my son, and and I'm I'm sitting there as he's asking me questions and then I'm asking him questions, I realize I don't have a lot more to teach you Like it's been 18 years. We've covered a lot.

You know, we have we have read the Bible together. We prayed together. We've worked through life lessons.

And uh I I think influence, the winning of the heart is just I'm gonna care for your heart no matter what. And you can always count on me. I'm always gonna be someone you can turn to and I'm here when you have a question.

Um But I do not assert my authority and I really probably stopped at around 16 or 17. You know, they'd ask questions about their car or anything. You know, there's a lot of decisions that I would make and things I'd have to help with, but I really needed them uh to make those decisions so they could So I can know they'll be able to do this when I'm not around.

That's the heart. I think that's what you just said. And I and I would say this to parents.

Don't obsess over the behavior of your children. Obsess over the hearts of your children in all seasons and stages of life Because all their behavior flows from the heart. Above all else, guard your heart.

It's the wellspring of life. Every word you speak, every action you take, it flows from the heart. When your child says or does something that is shocking or goes against the values of your home or against what the scripture teaches, get into the heart and find out where did that come from.

You know, why why did you say that? Why did you do that?

Doug:
I I think that you've absolutely nailed it here in the answer to this question. I heard you say a number of times Spending time with, spending time with. We prayed about it together.

We read through God's word together. Um and That I think is the key, is that you are taking the time to see. Every child is different What makes Carson's heart tick?

And so I'm gonna communicate based on that versus just looking at a parenting book, which can be helpful, but but it's knowing your child and the only way to do that is spend time with them. Uh one of my children a little while back, they wanted to watch something that I knew just was not going to be good for their heart. They were teenager and and they really wanted to see it and I was close to just saying, you know what, this is the this is Uh, it's gonna be bad for you to watch.

I don't want you watching it. I'm your dad. Because there was kind of a lot of back and forth about it.

You just need to listen to me here. Um at the last moment I was kind of like I remembered something I watched when I was about their age and I said, listen, can I just tell you that I still have memories from something that I watched when I was about your age that still bother me, that I wish weren't there. And there wasn't it was interesting, there wasn't even a conversation after that.

They didn't they I they didn't ask to watch it. And that's not that's not always going to work, but there's something I think about entering into their experience like you did with Carson um that makes a big difference. Uh and that that's how you're gonna win a heart time.

So it let me ask you this, Ted. Uh we've got a few more minutes here. So There are other people that it affects.

Um when there's a when when a uh a child or a a young person is moving on into a different part of their life. Um, Anna and I are a few years away from this. You mentioned um we were talking earlier, you're several months away from this, but parents themselves, um they're gonna be in an empty nest situation soon.

And I have had I'm old enough now, I'm fifty one, I've had conversations with friends. Where they're saying, you know, we spent so much time on on making sure we were doing the right thing with our kids that we barely spent time together. And now The last time I can really remember spending lots of quality time with my wife or with my husband when we were like in our 20s. And now our kids are gone.

We're alone in this big house. How do we how do you prepare? And there are some people who are listening right now that are already in the empty nest.

So Ted might you have something to mention to folks who are already dealing with this or will be one of these days?

Ted:
Yeah, so you know, it's a little bit of a different transition for Amy and I because we always prioritize quality couple time with kids in the home. So our kids knew we had a date night every week and didn't let anything mess with that. Uh you know, mom and dad prioritized the marriage in the home.

We eradicated the kids-centered home. That was a gift to the kids to prepare them for life, you know, in the world. And and then gave Amy and I something to you know, look forward to each week uh and every day with the you know I I teach that every marriage needs a daily delay, a weekly withdrawal, and an annual abandon.

So you need time every day together, you need time once a week together, and you need to get out of town just the two of you together. Um doesn't have doesn't have to be expensive, doesn't have to take a lot of time, but It's a signal to family and friends, and especially your children, that our marriage is important. And this is of high value to us.

And so Uh Amy and I are already and we've already experienced that once your kid starts driving and they have school activities and all that, things you're not invited to. Uh we find ourselves eating meals at home alone and Amy actually just created a little space in a breakfast nook to go, uh this is the old person nook right here because we don't need that big table anymore. uh to sit at and I you know I laugh because we have a farm table where I'm like, why don't we do what the you know king and queen do where I sit on one end, you sit on the other end.

We hire somebody to bring us our salt and pepper, you know. No. Um but so we've adjusted to just the two of us at mealtime. in evening time.

Uh but uh our meal time and evening time is always open to the kids and our adult children. So our adult children come over quite a bit. And again, I I don't ever pressure them.

I don't ever, you know, even request or demand it, but they I want them to know that we have an open door. We want you guys to be here as often as you want to be here because they've got plenty going on And I think it's one of the skills in the emptiness. If you want to still have influence in the life of your children, you flex.

I know you've got jobs too, and we've all got things to do, but Amy and I are far more flexible than our kids are as they're going as they're married, going through college, redoing a house. You know, we want to make time for them and we find ourselves flexing to their schedule.

Doug:
What's great about the things you mentioned as far as uh emptiness goes, spending time uh together regularly, getting out of town, even once a year. These are things that that anybody can do at any age Whether you've been things are really awkward and and it's been a few years since it's been empty uh since your emptiness started, or You're a few years away from it. These are things anybody can do.

Look, we we recognize that the woman I married, the man I married There are still all these amazing things I love about them, but there have also been some things that have have changed and interests and so take the time to spend the time together and and you know r i if it takes getting to know each other again, um then that's worth it. And and but but man, I just keep hearing this this nugget of wisdom here, Ted, I hear time with the kids. I hear time with our spouses.

And and if it's not prioritized, there's so much on the to-do list. There's so much going on. You said you said uh getting away from the kids-centered house.

This is that's parents saying, look, we have a lot to teach you and we have to as your parents we are going to take time to to prioritize our marriage and our family time together. I am learning myself here and I'm going I'm actually getting ready to schedule some time away uh with Anna all just because of this conversation Ted, we're we are um let me ask you one last quick question here, um then then we're gonna let you go. Do you have any quick advice on uh it's just popped in my head how to get your your children interested in the word of God because You you you mentioned Carson reading through the book of John.

Um, it's so vital. I know you know that. Um I know our many of our listeners know that.

But do you have any quick advice on how to get your children interested in the Word of God without forcing it on them?

Ted:
Yeah, I I just you know me, I fight legalism because I grew up in it. Um I fight it every day of my life. And I I I want to know what's non-essential and what's essential, and I obviously focus on the essentials So I just encourage people put a plan together, but just don't be rigid.

My my especially my son's personality. He doesn't do good with rigid. And so, you know, we were at dinner the other night at our house.

Uh actually Yeah, two nights ago. And he had a friend stay in the night, and his friend graduated too. So they're kind of doing, you know, post-graduation stuff.

And he looks at his friend with enthusiasm and says, Hey, you want to Do the Bible study with my dad and I in the morning. And I mean like okay, let let kids initiate once You know, you put a plan in place. And, you know, there were weeks in the spring here that it was it was challenging because he had so much going on at school early morning and everything.

And and so I I don't be rigid. Let kids initiate. Uh you want them to fall in love with the word of God and see it as something they take with them the rest of their life.

For me to sit down at breakfast. If I if I had a plan to read 25 verses and walk him through it and what it means and everything, and he asked a question at the fifth verse, In the middle of me reading it, I can stop and answer that question and let it take the rest of our time. What's the old cliche It's not about us getting through the Bible.

It's about the Bible getting through us. And that's that's what I want for my kids. And and we we've instilled, you know, scripture reading.

scripture memorization in our kids from a very early age. And um you know there were just times I I I joked that I wanted to call our dog Satan because every time I read the Bible, you know, at home after dinner, the the dog went nuts. I'm like, this dog does not like the Bible.

This dog knows what's happening and I will take my stand against the devil's evil schemes here. I love my dog. But I mean it was like everything would just break loose and the kids would see that in me and So don't be rigid.

Like be willing to flex. Like teach. And this is another one.

I learned this from Jim Burns. This one my daughter really embraced. Don't don't take every moment and turn it into a teachable moment.

Doug:
Oh, that's good.

Ted:
And there are times something would happen in our home. And I don't know if Ron Hutchcraft ever had this issue because, you know, he's got not just a point, a verse, and a lesson, but a masterful illustration like is gonna flow out of those three things. I don't know if this happened constantly in your home.

Doug:
My dad can make an illustration out of anything and almost become like a joke in the family. Like, Dad, look, there's a banana peel on the floor.

Ted:
Have you ever slipped a have you had a slippery day?

Doug:
Have you had a slippery

Ted:
Exactly. So but there are times I think any communicator who's constantly thinking about content has that moment. There have been plenty of time.

My son doesn't do it as much as my daughter did, but something would happen, I'd be like, hey, you know what? And Kern would just look at me with those eyes and said, hey, dad. I don't need a lesson right now.

Let's just let that happen and uh move on with our lives. And so don't make every moment a teachable moment. Kids learn according to Deuteronomy 6, 4 through 7, where it says, you know, talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the way, when you lie down and when you get up.

Your children all throughout the day are watching, listening. Remembering and repeating. That is how all messages are written upon the heart of a child.

They watch their parents, they listen to their parents, they forget nothing. And then they repeat. And so it's I I'm talking about it this Mother's Day in our anthem series at church because I just want to make it real simple.

I think we've overcomplicated family discipleship And we're discipling all day long and we're teaching all day long whether we have the lesson and the illustration or not. It's because they're watching, listening, remembering, repeating. And your kids need a consistent parent, not a perfect parent.

They need someone who's just living it out each day. And when you make a mistake, when you blow it, you you confess it.

Doug:
Wow That is a great way to wrap up our time together here. Um, Ted, thank you so much on a personal level. I'm sitting here writing or scribbling all this stuff down.

I'm like, I gotta try that. I gotta that's a that's a great idea. So thank you so much for your time.

Um we gotta make sure that we are checking out this book coming out in September, The Greater Joy Together. Um I'm definitely going to be going through that with Anna, this 52-week devotional Uh Ted, thank you so much for your time. Can't wait to see you.

Oh, probably on Sunday.

Ted:
All right. Well, maybe next time Brad will be back in circulation.

Doug:
I'm telling you, I'm gonna go find them now.

Ted:
I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on.

Brad:
Thanks, Ted. Have a great day. Doug, I'm so glad you had that time with Ted. To everyone that was listening, we pray that was an encouragement to you and we're praying for you. as you're walking through the season on your own or with someone else. So if it was an encouragement to you, make sure that you share this with a friend because we want them to know how they can make a difference as well And so from all of us to all of you, until next time, once again, go bed