Juggling the Secular and the Sacred at Christmas

Jesse:
Welcome back to the podcast and welcome to the most wonderful time of the year. Today we are discussing a topic that I think we all feel in some shape or form. Christmas traditions, decorations, Santa Claus, Advent.

How do I know if I'm celebrating the right things, too much or too little? And how can I be an ambassador for Christ in the middle of it? Doug and Brad share some thoughts and explain what Beau Duke and a Jesse Tree have in common.

Ready? Merry Christmas! Let's go mad!

Brad:
Welcome everyone to a closing in on Christmas. Go mad with Doug and Brad. We are here again. Off me some Christmas. It is we we were like, hey, you know what Is anyone gonna listen leading up to Christmas?

Doug:
All the podcast stats are terrible around Christmas. You go on Google, people no one is listening. But we know there are at least four people listening to this right now.

And we wanted to do this for you. Well, that's our family. And we and we love that.

No, no, no. You know, actually, thanks for listening guys to the podcast. Uh things are going pretty well.

Brad:
Yeah, we we really appreciate the uh growing listenership and the way you guys are sharing. Thank you. New people are finding it And today we're going to be talking about something that you, quite honestly, you've likely seen on social media or in conversations at church or with friends, which is how we who love Jesus should celebrate Christmas.

Now, we're not going to if you're like, oh good, because I got problems with people and you're gonna back up my argument. Well, we're not gonna dive into all the reasons people have for the different things they believe about what is okay and not okay at Christmas. But we do want to chat about important things related to Jesus and Santa.

Doug:
You may think you've you've heard this discussion before, but I think we're gonna go on a couple different directions that might be might be something new. And that w we hope we hope that uh this discussion helps make your Christmas Yeah Even that much better and that much awesome.

Brad:
I mean, Yeah, because we're gonna be looking at how we should be celebrating Christmas in a way that doesn't lose the real meaning of it, but where we allow space for each other's Christmas celebrations and everything.

Doug:
You brought up social media, so tell me if you've been here 'cause I just this just happened to me fairly recently. You're on Facebook. You just posted your most recent picture of the peaceful living room Christmas scene, assuming everybody really cares about seeing that.

in their house. You take the picture, you're like, this is beautiful. You realize there's Snickerdoodle crumbs on your sweater.

You say, everyone can we get back together and take it again. The children are upset. But you know the tree, the family hot chocolate, ah, as you sit back and wait for those festive comments to come pouring in, you're shocked at the comment.

Oh I see you have a picture of Santa on some of your wrapping paper.

Brad:
The comments you get everything from first of all they start with You have your tree up already? Wait, you're listening to Christmas music? You shouldn't do it before this day and then they do skew into the

Doug:
previously thought like thirty seconds ago and w Or we were just upset and wound up at that point. We're we're not going to people people have different um convictions about Christmas, not even about when you start to listen to your music, although some folks have some real convictions about that apparently. But But whether to celebrate it, what's okay to use in celebration.

And like Brad said, we're not gonna jump into that a lot because that that can can can kind of get argumentative. We're gonna focus a little bit more on if you are celebrating Christmas. How do you as your family, whether you have kids or not, uh uh publicly, privately, how do you celebrate Christmas in a way that is uh that is the most honoring to the person that is the reason for Christmas.

Brad:
Yeah, because the reality is that I we talk all the time about being ambassadors. for Christ. And you want to be ambassadors for Christ with your family, your friends, your social media friends, all these people around you at Christmas.

Because one of the keys that we're going to keep coming back to, you'll hear us mention something along these lines later too, is it is very important that we not allow our different views To keep us from what should be our main focus, which is letting others know that there is good news of great joy for All the people for unto us is born this day. Don't get me started on it wasn't on Christmas Day. Born this day.

Doug:
We know it was more like April 9th or something.

Brad:
A savior. Who is Christ the Lord? That's what that's what we're focusing on today is not letting things in fact Doug, you and I were just talking.

Doug:
Wait, are you suggesting our public arguments amongst one another as believers somehow turns off people about Jesus. I'm not sure it m lines up with the good news of great joy side of things.

Brad:
And you you and I we're Both wrote down a passage that when we were looking at this, we didn't know each other had written this down. But it kind of goes in line because we do want to acknowledge There are these disagreements, and we don't want to minimize those today. We know people are passionate about what they believe, so this isn't talking about we should dismiss this view or embrace this view. It's not about that

Doug:
Yeah, you know, this uh is this debate starts almost as soon as Christmas becomes more than just a Just solemnly celebrating Jesus' birthday. I saw something uh about this on the History Channel or something where like uh i people kind of knew about st. Nicholas, but it didn't become like a all about about money and toys and commercialism uh until like Coca-Cola decided to take Santa or or or the idea of Saint Nick and turn it into this really commercialized thing. And then the money side of Christmas explodes.

I I think that's what really starts to upset people when they start to go down the road of man, should we even be celebrating in this way? Because it so takes the the attention away from Jesus. But Like Brad said, there's this this really interesting scripture that I've had to go back a few times in my life.

It's a tough one. It is. It's actually a challenging one.

It really is. This is Paul You know, it it's so interesting. The Apostle Paul was so obviously dealing with so many of the same things we deal with among us as believers.

today. Um, I think how you celebrate Christmas lands for a believer in what Paul referred to as a matter of conscience. or disputable matters.

Um unless there's something blatantly unscriptural, we operate with grace towards one another. Um he this is in um in Romans. It says um Paul says, one one person considers one day more sacred than another, another considers every day the same.

Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Isn't that interesting? Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

So you then why do you judge your brother or sister, or why do you treat them with contempt? Hello, Facebook Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. It's fascinating to me there.

I th the first time you read that you go, Well, Paul's about to say, Well, I'll tell you which day is sacred and which isn't But he says, No, this is I'm not gonna say that. What I'm gonna say is this is one of those matters where if you are taking a day like Christmas and saying, I celebrate it Regardless of whether that was the actual day or regardless of of whether whether e everything is overly commercialized.

Brad:
Or even some of the roots of the traditions that some people disagree on, as far as even where some of those things came from.

Doug:
And it's true. And and honestly, and man, I tell you, Brad, you get into those conversations I saw a back and forth about Christmas trees last Christmas that was gone there were there were three hundred and fifty, three hundred and sixty comments after just some random, Hey, I'm so excited. I love celebrating Christmas.

It was it was a pastor of a local church and someone really got mad. Don't you know where Christmas trees come from? I'm sorry, I really shouldn't have done that.

Brad always I'm I was hoping I was hoping you forgot about all the that it that it was actually but but seriously and and one person is like no no no the the Christmas tree came from from believers showing life and reminding people about the cross. And someone else views on it. Exactly.

And someone else said, no, it was the the druids who who came in and decided to uh throw Christmas trees at Christians to kill them or something like that.

Brad:
I'm not positive positive. Jesse, what are it what do you think when we're talking about this? Because Paul also talks about in uh Romans 15, 5 and 6, may the God of endurance and encouragement. Grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus, that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, glorifying Jesus during the season and all of this kind of what hits you in this?

Jesse:
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with showing grace to each other on matters that you can't specifically and clearly see in scripture. What I struggle with in my home is I sometimes feel like I'm almost celebrating two different holidays. Uh I'm I've got Christmas and then Christmas.

I've got the the birth of Jesus, and then I've got the warm fuzzies and the Christmas carols and the presents and the tree and all that goes along with it. And I love both. But I want to teach my kids, hey, the reason why we're celebrating is because we have a savior that came for us to us.

But I also want them to have Christmas traditions and have fun. Sometimes I don't know how to handle the two of those things without making them feel like We're mixing them together.

Doug:
I gotcha. Jesse, I think a lot of people feel the same way. Uh, and so we're gonna get into this in just a second here.

How d do you do you keep things separate? And maybe, maybe just maybe, and this is kind of the way Brad, our parents handled it, and I really appreciated it, and this is what we try to do. Maybe you you integrate and you and you say How can we use what is happening in the in the the what we'll call the secular, the the commercialized part of Christmas?

How can we use something like that and help teach our kids while they're enjoying that that this is actually we're celebrating because of Jesus and use those things to actually share with them a truth, a spiritual truth about Jesus and this time of year. So we're going to get into that in just a second here and give you some some concrete examples and ideas on how we can do that.

Brad:
Yeah, and we want to be clear here that what Jesse shared is very much our heart as well that uh in Our lives and in our ministry, we we believe that you have to draw out lines and not bring stuff together that shouldn't be together, but there's also the reality that there are things that are uh unclear the the origins and that do have good roots and that the reality is that If in our lives we are trying to use the things we have around us to point to Jesus, my children, I'm going to be honest, one of the joys for me, and Doug, I know this is true for you too, is they love to give. They Christmas, they light up for Christmas Eve. That's when we open gifts as a family. They love to give to others because e even in a sense, in some ways, more than getting, they love they light up because They want to be about that and we have really tried to incorporate that the reason we give these gifts is because of the gifts Jesus has given to us and this is just a way we show love to each other.

Doug:
It's like however long you celebrate it, it's like a two-week for some people two month celebration of Jesus, Jesus birthday party almost. Um Brad, you just you just hit on something important there, I think. You know, it hit me a few years ago It was it was Christmas.

The kids were opening their presents and they had such joy over receiving something that they had really hoped that they would get. We we I won't get it far into this. We try not to spoil our kids and and so they don't get every single thing on their Christmas list, but we do try if there's something they really want, we we try to make it happen.

And I'm like, why do I feel so much joy watching them feeling so much joy? And and the the scripture popped into my head, the f Father, the heavenly father loves giving good gifts to his children. Is it possible that while we're opening those presents and feeling that joy, it's actually a reflection of how our Heavenly Father feels about us.

That's why I'm so excited when when they are so excited about it. Brad, that I I remember a few years ago you said hey have you seen this uh this uh Samaritan's Purse gift catalog And I was like, what well what is that? And you said, well, you can actually open up this catalog and and Samaritan's Purse gives you options from with your family from like Anything from five dollars to to give a dozen eggs to a person in a in a country that doesn't typically get things like that, all the way up to thousands of dollars to help deliver girls out of human trafficking and and things like that.

So yeah, take take the the excitement and the joy about the present thing and don't don't have an issue that your kids enjoy getting presents, but Try to steer that. And I don't, Brad, I know you've seen this with your kids. I've seen it with mine.

They develop very quickly. a greater joy in giving the the perfect gift to somebody than they do getting it. Unless It's the video game they love.

Then then that's or then they love that more than anything. Oh boy, did those guys figure out Christmas. Can I go to history lesson real quick?

Brad:
Do it There is, now this is weird because the history lesson, this is part of how you can incorporate some of the Traits of Jesus and being an ambassador for Jesus into Christmas and strangely it ties to human trafficking. And it ties to Saint Nicholas. Because here we go. The legend of Santa Claus. Now look, this came to me.

Doug:
Saint Nicholas is a fascinating guy.

Brad:
He really is. I'll read about him. Very quick summary.

So here we go. The legend of Santa Claus really can be traced back hundreds of years to a monk named Saint Nicholas. It's believed that he was born sometime around 280 A. D. And it was in modern day Turkey.

Now, this guy, we all know the story he was giving. He was much admired for his piety and kindness He became the subject of a lot of legends. It actually said that he gave away all of his inherited wealth and traveled the countryside helping the poor and sick.

But one thing that not a lot of people know is one of the best known stories is the time he saved three poor sisters from being sold into slavery or prostitution. By by helping pay the dowry for them so they could get married and all this. So you have when you look at Christmas traditions Look at St. Nicholas and teach your kids some about him because there's some fascinating history there of someone who loved Jesus and was trying to live out be his hands and feet to the world around him.

Doug:
One thing I just love. about our parents and I again I said this earlier, but I want to really emphasize this. There are so many w jumping off points, especially around Christmas.

to share a truth with your with your children or with your friends that they might not otherwise think about because it you can't just Bring a lot of these things up randomly. Your kids aren't gonna be interested in a history lesson, but they will be interested in wait, Santa Claus did what? Yep.

And and then turning it into this is how we can do that too. Uh another great story about Saint Nicholas real quick was he punched a guy in the face.

Brad:
No. Okay, so

Doug:
I'm just gonna cover it a little bit, but someone told me more here. Okay, so here's it might be a legend, but you know what? Okay.

I'm going with it. No, this I think it okay, so so this is what they say happened. Okay.

I person I personally think it happened Just not quite as stupidly as I just put it. Um but there was this guy, Arius, they were at the Council of Nicaea And this was a very important time in Christian history. There's a bunch of bishops coming together to say, what are what's the theology we really are going to teach to people?

And they happen to be talking about the Trinity. And so this guy Arius was saying something about that that Jesus wasn't as important as the as his father talking about the Trinity. And so Saint Nicholas has had about enough.

And he walks across the room and apparently he slapped the guy in the face and and he went, ho ho ho What do you think of that?

Brad:
I don't know. I think you may have added to the story a little, but But here I go. I had actually I don't think I had ever heard that story. And then it just I've chosen to believe it.

Doug:
And I tell me there's a better Christmas card. Tell me.

Brad:
May the truth of Christmas slap you in the face this year. There's actually, I've not seen this, there's actually a movie out right now about a violent Santa. And now I'm just wondering if it was based on someone that studied that history. I don't know.

Doug:
It's just a standard that goes around slapping people. I don't know. Little little side note here.

Um I do you guys I I was watching um this Christmas movie with my kids. Uh this one's called The Dog Named Christmas. I've told you about it.

Oh, yeah. I've seen it. Oh yeah.

And w I don't know what has happened to me. As I get older, I thought I'd get better at this. Why am I like constantly tearing up and crying at these Christmas movies?

Even when I'm not sure. I want to be a cuff guy. Yeah.

I know it's coming. I've seen it a thousand times and I'm like, oh yeah, try to manipulate

Brad:
Manipul manipulate me.

Doug:
Man, I'm not I'm not falling for.

Brad:
Even some of the Scrooge ones that are done just right.

Doug:
Oh, Scrooge gets me every winter. Scrooge it's not too late. I'm like, children, daddy's allergies are acting up in winter again.

Brad:
Or when Gonzo and the Muppet Christmas Okay never mind. Alright. Um so here we go.

I had to fit it in there. Um so what we Christmas tangent we we just have a few minutes left. So what I want to also talk about is One of the traditions our family did, because we do want to give you some things that can help you focus on Christ during the Christmas season and you can weave it.

It's not just let's sit down now, children, and we'll talk about Jesus.

Doug:
You are a And not just children.

Brad:
Let's be clear.

Doug:
This is a great way. On social media you say, well, I don't have kids. You you may soon, you might have grandkids, you might have friends with the and you might Just have a a um uh folks following what you say on social media, co-workers, this is this is advice on how to how to bring Jesus into the conversation across the board.

Brad:
That's right, Doug, because even you know, we think of what the word of God says about, you know, talking about this as you're walking and as you know, i every part of everyday life you're supposed to be incorporating this. So one tradition we had in our house growing up is Mom would go out and she would just get a branch. And now that could be terrifying if you know you had done something wrong. But you ran the other way.

Doug:
Spare the rod Spo No, no, they they she she was very um non capricious.

Brad:
There we c wow, I there I like that. So So we go, she would bring in this branch and we would do the Jesse tree as part of our traditions as we went through the season. The name comes from Jesse, not our producer, Jesse.

Jesse:
Uh not you. You have a tree, but it's not did you fact check that?

Doug:
I did. I I would const I would always wonder this time of year where my nineteen seventy six Beau Duke doll went. It's so funny because yes, the now the we'll explain that in a second.

Brad:
It's so funny. And became Jesse. Go ahead.

Because the name comes from Jesse who was the father of King David, and we talk about the line to Jesus. It says in Isaiah 11, a shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse. And so it talks about how that we we look at how that traces to King David all the way through the genealogy of Jesus.

And the you have this tree, this branch, because it's a sign of new life and new beginnings. And so we would have an ornament for each of the 25 days leading up to Christmas in December. And the ornaments or decorations would be very different, but yes, Doug.

Yeah. Tell us about Yeah.

Doug:
Yep. And she'd put a little beard on him. She it didn't typically ask if she could paint a beard on him, and that's okay because it was just another it was just another way to play with it.

Brad:
And he'd be down at the base of the tree kind of showing.

Doug:
You got you got ornaments and and you've got gifts and and and a tree and all of a sudden you're using these things and integrating something to show your children that Jesus was a historical figure. that he came from an actual lineage. And again, there's people who you've got a ton of people you work with and who are on social media who don't even these days even believe Jesus was an actual person And you can point to these things and say, see, this is one of the things I love about Christmas.

I remember mom and dad would and not everyone has to do this. We actually we actually did this, what I'm about to say, and then we stopped. We started just doing it the traditional way.

But mom and dad would have us open our Christmas gifts on Christmas Eve as kids, and then in the morning we would focus more on the Christmas story. They felt that was a good idea to keep them separate. And and that might be a great thing for you to do.

Um, I remember that uh the Jesse Tree, yes. Uh, I remember that um they would bring out every year mom would bring out this green kind of cheese ball styrofoamy thing. Painted green.

Painted green, and it but it was actually to put the advent. candles in. And I'm telling if if the four Sundays before you would can Yeah and they would come out all over the place and on your clothes and and but but for real It's one of my most vivid memories of Christmas because it was very solemn.

There's something about, especially as a kid, you know, lighting this candle. And each if you don't know about this, you probably do the tradition. Go read about it.

Brad:
If you want to know, this was one of the reasons I love this is you can take what each candle represents and actually focus on it even during that week. So you have the first candle that symbolizes hope. The second, people phrase differently, but it's faith or love or even preparation.

Third candle symbolizes joy, and the fourth candle represents peace. Then you got the fifth candle in the middle, which is always exciting to light, and that was light and purity. And so you could focus on those things leading up to Christmas and Doug, I think what what gets me here is we're talking about this.

You can see if you were in you right now, you can see Doug and I are animated. We're standing here now. The New Jersey's coming out.

It really is because what what I want people to walk away from in this. Is that parents can make Christmas season about Jesus without having to make it cut off everything from what they're seeing, from what kids are seeing out in the world. They can make it about Jesus in a way I'm I filled with joy when I think of the Jesse Advent wreath and everything because it what I remember is I don't remember, hey the w these Santa moments or whatever else.

And I don't I also don't remember Santa bashing in our house. What I remember is there was a focus on Jesus. Whatever else was going on.

We knew what it was about. And that's the key. Like I like what you said, Doug.

Whether it is family or whether it is children or whether it is on social media. Don't think about picking the fight or trying to convince someone to your way. What we need to be trying to convince people to is the way, the truth, the life, and focusing on the good news of great joy.

That is. Today is born a savior.

Doug:
He is Christ. Amen. You know, I uh dad did this when we were kids and other things hit me here, and he does it now with the grandkids.

um and all of us uh before it's time to open presents he does a brief bible study now you go oh my goodness uh good luck with the kids. The presents are there. They're so excited.

And there's an element of, oh, can we can we just get to opening the presents? But very quickly, it kind of Laser focuses what we're about to do as we open this, as we open these gifts, into what this really means of and the gift, ultimate gift of salvation. And the miracle, just the mind-blowing miracle of God, Almighty God, the creator of heaven and earth.

Becoming a helpless baby, to experience what we've experienced, to be able to pay for our sin and and earn and give us the opportunity to accept the gift of salvation Uh and so just for five minutes, and you know what? Very quickly, the kids, the the kind of the craziness calms down. And he has put into context what this is all about, what all of the the hot cocoa and the lights and the presents is all about.

And and it honestly brings a very sweet spirit into the room. And so instead of going, you know, complete avarice and everyone screaming, I mean, yeah, they're still they're still excited to open their gifts. But they're also excited to give the gifts to one another and it brings a sweet spirit.

Something another thing hopefully to consider to help point your family towards Jesus in this season.

Brad:
And you know what? You may be someone that's listening right now and what Doug just shared about What Christmas is all about and who Jesus is, and that we have a chance at eternal life through him. You may have just tuned in and that's new to you.

And you're like, I want to hear more about that. Well, we'd encourage you to do is to reach out to find out more about Jesus who came to earth, who lived a perfect life, sinless life. died on a cross for us, rose again so we can have a relationship with him.

If this is something you're like, that's what I want this Christmas. Reach out to 888NEDHIM, their ministry friends of ours, 888Need Him, or chattaboutjesus. com, and they would love to tell you more about who Jesus really is this Christmas.

Doug:
And you may be listening to this and you may have lost. someone close to you or more than one person close to you and you're going, well that you guys are talking about a lot of joy, but I am not feeling that this year because of the loss that I have felt. And I want you guys to know that the moment that we're gonna do this actually on the podcast, but the moment that we Turn off the mics that the three of us are going to be praying for you, that God would shine his hope into your life and in into your heart.

Um, about the pain you're feeling, about the loss you're feeling. We have all been there. Brad has, Jesse has, I have, and you're also on our heart and we're praying for you this season.

Brad:
We really want to Thank you for being with us around the table here today. We are going to pray to wrap this up. But what I just want to encourage you to do is think through some of the things we mentioned about practical ways.

to bring Jesus into greater focus at Christmas, not to look at what do we have to leave out. But more importantly, making sure we bring in the most important thing, which is focusing on Jesus. You're like, you may be sitting there thinking, Advent Reath, it's too late.

Why? Just catch up. Do it in four days.

Yeah, do it in four days. So do these things, implement them. And we're going to be praying for you because we want you to have a very merry Christmas, not because of anything under the tree.

but because of Jesus. Let me pray for you right now. Heavenly Father, I just thank you for those who have joined us today and those who have Uh taking to heart some of what we've shared about really making sure our focus is in the right place that uh when we look at Advent, your arrival, Lord, your arrival, what joy that should bring.

But sometimes it's hard to have that joy when we don't know Jesus yet. We can't have that full joy. So if anyone Needs to do business with you for maybe the first time and ask you into their heart, would they do that this day?

Would they just cry out and say, Jesus, I want this relationship with you. I'm sorry For the things I've done to run my life my way, I'm yours from this day forward. And would they reach out to someone to talk about it And Lord, as Doug mentioned, for those who are hurting, we know faces come to mind right now of friends that have lost someone even in these past couple of days.

And it hurts even more to see that around Christmas We pray that those who are having a hard time figuring out how to find joy in the midst of the loss and the hurt would cry out to you. And that they would realize the joy doesn't have to be about what's happening around them, but the joy is found in you, in finding that peace that only you can bring, in finding the truth. Of Psalm 34, 18, that you are close to the brokenhearted and that you rescue those crushed in spirit.

I pray, Lord, that you would be with them, that you would heal them, that you would be close to them. And Lord, I just pray that for all of us, that in this countdown to Christmas, we would see you and experience you in a way like never before. I pray that for me, For Doug, for Jesse, for our families, and for all those listening, Lord, would you just bring you into greater focus for us?

Doug:
Lord, I I also just feel led to prayer right now for that person listening that is in a really difficult financial situation right now. We pray you would intervene. We pray and know that you will provide for them.

Help them to have the peace that goes beyond all human understanding in knowing that you will provide. We pray for them as well. We thank you for this amazing season and we thank you for the amazing incarnation in Jesus' name.

Brad:
Amen. Amen. So from the three of us to all of you listening, we just want to say go mad and Merry Christmas.

Jesse:
Oh