Immigration: An Ambassador Response

Brad:
Welcome everyone to Go Mad with Doug and Brad and Jesse's here with us again. Doug, it is good to have you back in studio.

Doug:
You're feeling better. That is disgusting. Well that's how we like to start episodes.

Brad:
Jesse appreciates that actually. Um I I will say that I you did miss a conversation about really what was more of an a little bit of an intense topic when leaders fall and So now we're ready to dive in back in, you know. Something a little lighter. Yes.

Doug:
We decided going into the new year, we'll start with something real light when leaders fall. head into something even lighter about immigration today. Oh. W Oh that's it's not you know My notes were primarily on groundhog.

Brad:
You're not gonna believe that's the problem. But uh You know I

Doug:
It's I didn't re you may not know this.

Brad:
A subject. There's good reasons for that. We are living it is just nuts. It's crazy.

Doug:
A lot of crazy things going on in the uh in uh well different states.

Brad:
And some heartbreaking things. You see things it's it's hard to watch the news and not have it impact you somehow because there are Uh I mean you can look at the big picture of things and that's bad, but when you start looking at the individuals and you're hearing the stories and seeing faces This i it is rough stuff we're looking at.

Doug:
Look, we we were talking recently and we're like, I mean, we have a podcast about how ambassadors respond to difficult things or or situations in life. We said we this is something we should probably be talking about. When our kids I mean my kids are asking me about this.

And I as we've talked about many times, we're ambassadors first and foremost to our families. Uh our our kids, our grandkids, our our wives, our husbands. Um And when they're asking about it, we go, man, we have a responsibility as ambassadors to them how we're responding to this because there's a lot of passionate response, of course, on uh in in uh on both sides of the fence here.

And uh um and of course, representing how we represent Jesus to to a foreigner, to an immigrant themselves.

Jesse:
Yes, yeah.

Doug:
Um and Here's the thing. You brought up the news and something I think we need to remember as we're discussing this today or anytime. There's a lot of stuff like you mentioned, Brad, that's in the headlines.

That are making people anxious and angry. It seems the loudest voices in the news are the ones that are the most extreme My son Sam, we we memorize scripture together and uh as a family, and he he said, hey, I found one I'd like to I'd like us to memorize And I don't know if I had remembered this one. He said there's a scripture in Ecclesiastes, whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.

Whoever fears God. Now in this case, this is interesting though. In this case, Solomon's talking about um being what he calls being overly righteous, so like legalism.

Or overly wicked, recklessness, not caring about sin. But that really applies here. I mean, Christ's ambassador can believe what the law says about things like immigration is important while still feeling love and compassion towards someone uh who may not have come here legally from a different country Look, the word of God says we have laws for a reason.

And as we discussed this today, you know, we we uh are gonna pretty much avoid the political discussion. We were saying yesterday if you'd like a polit to listen to political discussion about immigration. You don't need us.

There's there just type anywhere else and you will find it. is to treat others the way we want to be treated. You know, specifically with love and compassion.

So just don't f as you hear all of the extremes flying that, you know, click Th this is how you get a lot of clicks and and this is how you get people to listen. As you hear these extremes flying all over the place, don't fall for the lie that you have to operate within one extreme.

Brad:
or the other. Yeah, uh our conversation today is gonna revolve around the fact that when we turn on the news, when no matter what your news source is, you see a world that is in need of hope. And we need to have a response as ambassadors that helps bring that hope.

So our conversation today, while policies are important, our conversation today is about the people. The people that are impacted by things, the people we see in these stories and and how we view them and uh it's both sides. of the issue go to these extremes like you mentioned, Doug.

We need to be able to be hope. We need to be salt and light in these situations. So I we Regardless of your political position, we really do pray that you will get something out of this.

And by saying that you're not going to just get politics, sure. Probably I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna go my 80s version.

Don't touch that dial. No one has a dial anymore. But don't touch that dial because you will hear five ways, five questions to ask.

That uh we should be asking living as representatives of Christ in times like these when it comes to immigration. Guys, look

Doug:
When we uh when we talk about um what to discuss on this uh on uh go mad with Doug and Brad and Jesse We um you know, we go, well well is that i uh is that going to upset people and and what if what if we don't like to get into politics and everything and and you might hear something that sounds like it's that Uh what Brad just said, yeah, give us give us some grace here because we're we're just trying to talk about how does someone who follows Jesus respond to the the um the refugee themselves, the people who are talking about this, you got if you are uh follower of Jesus, the people around you know that, the people you work with, the your family, the people you go to school with, and and whether you know it or not, They're listening. They want to know what they they might not be a follower themselves. I I heard someone put it this way. I thought this was pretty good before we get into um the these five questions to ask ourselves is can you separate in the discussion the subject of immigration and the immigrant themselves. This is this is the like you said, Brad, we're not really talking about policies today, but but 'Cause if we don't, if we start to I'm a I'm about to give us a preview to one of the but when when we start to lump people in to a subject or a policy and they and they become a a category, okay?

Brad:
Or a box we put in and that gets dangerous. You're just this. He's just that.

It happens not just in this category, but in every area of our lives. It is We we put people in there, they are just this. Fill in the blank with whatever.

And a lot of times it's political party or denomination. They're just this or whatever.

Doug:
So there we go. All right. Kick us off All right, here we go.

Five questions that we ask ourselves. As representatives as representatives of Jesus. So number one, when it comes to Really, and I think with these with these five, you can apply this to just about any subject that you're talking about.

But today you're talking about immigration. Number one, do I see people as a category or do I see them As creations of God. Created in his image as God Himself says.

Um It's it's any anytime God says something in his word where he goes, above all, you know, you kind of stop for a minute. It's like God's clearing his throat. Make sure you hear this one.

Everybody, when he says, above all, guard your heart, as he does so many times in his word, thankfully, he says why? Because everything we do or says flows from it So if the enemy can give us a heart attack, as it were, our hearts are under attack from the enemy Then he's got us because if if our hearts start to grow dark or cold, and we're gonna get into that in a second then he's got us where he wants us. So in Matthew twenty four, Jesus talks to this specifically, and by the way he's speaking to his people.

He said, Because of the increase of wickedness, basically things get really crazy. The closer it gets to Jesus returning, Things get crazier and crazier. And he says, because of that, the love of most is going to grow cold.

Now think of how terrifying. This is what happens when God's people, when their hearts, because that's who he's talking to here, the love of most is going to grow cold. What a scary thought, man.

It's hard for an uncaring heart to be motivated by love. It is hard for an uncaring, for a cold heart to reach out to somebody in need. That might be the most terrifying thing I can think of.

One of the most in in terrifying things in God's word that can happen to us is to not even be aware that that love, that our heart, not even be aware that it's happening, but by putting people in the boxes, categories, that's a good way to start.

Brad:
Yeah, I think uh the question we need to ask ourselves is when I, along with what you were saying, do I see people as a category? When I turn on the news, when I'm watching whatever news story. And whichever side you kind of view as in the wrong morn, whatever news story it might be that night, do you see those individuals As Imago Day, as being created in the image of God.

That's what it talks about in Genesis 1, 26 and 27. We're all created in God's image. Do we view each other that way first?

and foremost, because consistently in scripture we're reminded that God has a heart for the weak, the marginalized the outcast. It actually hit me Psalm thirty four eighteen. It's usually I've quoted this verse to so many people who are going through heartache, who are going through tough times, who are going through loss, but it's God is close to the brokenhearted and rescues those crushed in spirit.

When you look at the faces of people we're seeing that are they you can tell they are brokenhearted, they are crushed in spirit. God is close to them. We need to see them as He sees them.

And what really just struck me was the as I was looking into this more and more throughout the Word of God, Old Testament and New Testament. So if you're someone that's like, ah, Old Testament, eh no, that's uh I hope you're not. But I if if you're like, well that doesn't apply as much.

They do go together. Um but it's sojourners. Paul talks about it a lot, but it is repeatedly referenced.

It's also translated in other versions of the Bible as foreigners, strangers. Refugees. And God has something to say about how we treat people who land in those categories.

You look at Zechariah 7, 9 through 10. By the way, this is the first time I've quoted Zechariah recently. But um Thus says the Lord of hosts, render true judgment, show kindness and mercy to one another.

Do not oppress the widow, check, the fatherless, okay, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart. And the other verse that hit me here was Deuteronomy ten, eighteen and nineteen. He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing.

God wants us to love others. He wants us to see them that way because when we show the love of Christ, that makes a difference as an ambassador.

Doug:
Oh that's that's so good. And I know before we get into the next You know, I y you see um before m a listener goes, Oh wait, oh Doug and Brad don't care that that too many people are are crossing the border illegally Look, again, there are reasons for those laws and we've we have to be careful with it because um because there are security issues. So we believe in the law, but also I believe when when I'm I'm watching uh footage and there's a a woman who's got four small children.

She's carrying two of them in her arms and and two of 'em are by their her side and they're crying and she's desperate to get to the border. You know, is my first thought, how dare she? She's she's I mean Ha i she's about to b probably break one of our laws.

If that's the very first thing as a believer That lands in your heart and where you land and instead of going, man, she is in a really tough situation. I wish there was a way I could help her. Then Might have a bit of an issue here.

Brad:
first thing that comes to your mind because the other things, the policies, all that, they are important, but what is the first thing your heart goes to?

Jesse:
Jesse? Yeah, and Brad, you mentioned Deuteronomy ten eighteen in the f the next verse is Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. Um there there is a a health to looking in the mirror And recognizing I am but by the grace of God.

Uh what I have from the Lord I have not earned, I have received as a gift. If I approach my life with that mentality, all I have is a gift from God. How How could I look at others and say, um, you don't deserve X, Y, or Z?

It's it's all been given as a gift, um, especially what we've received in the gospel. Um, I didn't go out and earn it God came to me, he had mercy on me. Uh am I willing to have that kind of mentality towards towards others around me, especially those who are in need?

Doug:
You know, my wife my wife is Navajo, she's Native American and She said, uh, you know, you guys, you uh you're you Europeans, you were the first immigrants here. And she said, Hey, what are you guys doing? And she said, You just started shooting at us. Oh my goodness

Jesse:
And that's a point.

Brad:
She has a point. Well and it is i the the fact is I don't want to be seen as just a category and I wouldn't want anyone else because that is truth there, Doug. That I wasn't my my great, great, whatever level it is, grandparents.

They they weren't here originally. We weren't asked. We weren't asked.

We certainly were not asked. And and and we need to view ourselves as sojourners. This world is not our home.

So this country temporarily we're here. But this is this world is not our home.

Doug:
Next podcast. Who does the land really belong to? There we go. Staying along the lines of uncontroversial things.

Brad:
So let's dive into the second question. This one's uh I think goes a little quicker. It's it's uh ties into this, but Am I basing my relationships with people in my world on anything other than the unconditional love of Christ?

Gotta start there. Ephesians 4, 31, going into 32, get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander. Man, that would be a Really kind of lame news cycle, I think, for most of these uh things if most of these networks if they did that, but that's what God says to do, along with every form of malice.

Be kind and compassionate to one another. I I love I'm gonna quote Dad on this. Uh because I love what he said here.

When you step into that chaotic world with the love of Christ that says I'm not going to decide my love for you based on how much we agree or how agreeable even you are or how you treat me. I'm going to treat you like Jesus treated me. When we do that, we are part of the answer at that point.

And that's what God is looking for from us. How am I basing my relationships and and the words that I say um just to impact those So I love them unconditionally. So that that's that's question two.

Doug:
You know the uh all I've have to say about this one, the place to start with all of this is your heart posture.

Brad:
Oh I wish you had said the place to start is the heart. Come on, Doug.

Doug:
I mean that could have rhyme. The place to start is the heart. Thank you.

There we go. The place to start is focusing on your heart posture versus your political positions. You know what I sure wish?

I sure wish Jesse. Would take one of these. What if what if he did say number three?

Jesse:
The next one? What? Alright.

Well, uh number three. This is this is a tough question. Am I doing or saying anything?

that does not represent Jesus. Colossians 3, 17. And whatever you do, whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus Giving thanks to God the Father through him.

So can I finish this conversation and say In the name of the Lord Jesus. Or can I post this to social media and at the end write, in the name of the Lord Jesus? Wow.

That's that is a tough question.

Doug:
You know I may need to go delete some posts. Back to putting people into boxes, categories I was thinking about um because because this question is about does it represent Jesus, I'm going, well how did Jesus himself respond to situations like this So it doesn't take long reading scripture to see that Jesus was attracted to he wanted to go and make sure that he had communicated love and value to the outsider. Okay.

Um so Whether he's he's d a couple cases here real quick. Whether he's talking i i that situation with the bleeding woman, she had been categorized big time. She was useless to people in that culture because she couldn't bear children.

She obviously would pe uh she she had been shunned. No one wants anything to do with her. Jesus not only heals her, and yes, that's beautiful, but you remember he calls her daughter in front of everybody.

In front of everybody. He calls her daughter. Zacchaeus.

Everyone hates the guy. He's been categorized. He is a traitor, the loser.

We want nothing to do with him. And he calls him son. He calls him son of Israel, actually.

And that's on purpose, so we can s help people see past the infraction And focus on the person as someone made in God's image that Jesus wants in his family.

Brad:
Yeah, so I man, that's so powerful. That's really good, Doug. Um it when w Jesse, when you're talking about kind of that post I can you put uh you know in the name of Jesus when you're thinking of it in that mindset.

Well, so that's the question to ask when you're looking at this. Am I doing or saying something? Is your response based on social media or how your primary news source is reporting on the topic?

Or is your response based on God's words, how he has loved you, the heart behind it, and representing the heart of Jesus to others. Hebrews 13, 2 says, do not forget to show hospitality to strangers. For by doing so, some have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Well, there are angels among us. Let's face it. There and and we need to view, I mean Man, you think of standing there before the Lord someday.

I is I'm just getting this. In my mind, you're standing before him and he's just like, you know, when you were in that angry crowd and that one person came up to you and said this or whatever. I was there in that moment.

And what if you place that back in a said, and here's what you said What if you had said this instead? And it's just Yeah, it'll it'll either be good job. Yeah.

Glad you did that. Or what were you thinking? Yeah.

Well done in some things

Doug:
Maybe in some others. Before we jump into number four, just just remember one reason it's so important Ask this question. It might sound Sunday schooly to go, well, is this what how Jesus would put it?

Can I say this and then say in the name of Jesus? Is because of who's listening? Your kids, your grandkids, they are listening.

If you're if you are Um, talking about people like like you can't stand them, or if the first thing in your mind, in your heart about them is they're is is they're doing something that you don't like. If it sounds hateful, if it sounds loving, whatever it is, they're listening not just to the words, but to the tone.

Brad:
And I would say this, and then we'll uh go to uh the fourth question. It ties into what you said about the the kids and everything else, like our kids that are listening to us. How we converse with each other about this is really important in person.

I uh and I say in person that kind of is where I'm going with this, that when we the conversations that take place on social media are not conversations. They w I know that people are like I will throw this out there because it's not always about just getting your view out there. You sometimes you're posting In passion because you want people to see things that they're not seeing.

And I get that. But social media just has become such a firestorm that You I I know because I've done this where you can just post a Bible verse.

Doug:
Oh man.

Brad:
And people are angered by it because they are viewing it through their lens. So try to have when you're having conversations about this, make sure that they are done with gentleness and respect, as the Bible tells us. That sounds like something that might be in the Bible.

Just maybe. And and and that We are doing it as much as you can face to face. That can be in person, if it's on the phone, if you can't do it.

So people are hearing you and hear your heart. Yeah, there the tone matters so much because Compassion and understanding should be first and foremost. And the other thing I would say here is realize that no matter what you say and how you say it People may not agree with you.

People won't agree with you all the time. We know that. But make sure they walk away from the conversation saying I felt respected.

I could see the love of Christ coming through that person. Wow.

Doug:
A quick little it just popped in my mind a quick little piece of advice my dad gave me years ago. He said when it's something you're passionate about and and you're responding to somebody, whether it's an email Whether that you've written, whether it's a comment on in social media that you've written, you said, wait ten minutes, come back, read it again, and go You might be surprised sometimes at what you wrote and and and you might be surprised at the tone and that you sounded angry. I thought it was good advice. I I have done that and come back and been like Boy, I uh I really sounded like a jerk there. Send!

Brad:
No, no, the delete button is there for a reason. All right. Uh number four, the fourth question.

Am I praying for our country and for our leaders as Scripture commands? 1 Timothy 2, verses 1 and 2, it's all about interceding for our leaders. If your first response when I say that is, yeah, but he, yeah, but she, but I can't believe that they didn't He's a Democrat, he's a Republican.

If that's your first response Then we that is getting in the way of you praying for them the way Jesus says to pray for them because he doesn't give us this choice of pray for them if they agree with you. Pray for them if you think they're right. The way that we impact those around.

Doesn't say that it impacts those around us is that we are praying with that heart. Because guess what? Again, and yes, Doug and Jesse and I, we are dads.

And so we are seeing this in our own homes that when you're praying, your children are also listening and please be praying with your kids, especially through times like these. But don't pray political prayers. Do not pray prayers that are loaded with your viewpoint.

Pray prayers that are based on the Word of God and that are interceding for leaders, asking for wisdom, asking for strength, asking for protection. I have seen some absolute hate and vitriol towards no matter your viewpoint towards everyone in the immigration debate that have even called for death. That I mean there are people that are saying that and look at what happened last year with the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

We're on the brink. We need to be praying and acting in a way that pulls us back from the brink. and brings peace and hope and light into these situations.

Doug:
You know, it's really hard to hate someone you're praying for. Um that point you made, Brad, about praying with our families about this, with our grandkids, with our kids, with their spouses, and praying in such a way where whether we agree with the the person we're praying for or not is uh it might be the most important thing we say today about ambassadorship. Um remember God's word says we do not have because we do not ask.

So if you're running around being angry that there isn't change. And you're not on your knees constantly about this. Do you really have a right to be running around and being angry about it?

Um the widow and the judge, that great parable where where if you want to see change, Jesus there's something about going back again and again and again and again that honors God in faith And and he says if someone who uh who hated this this widow would do it How much will your what will your father do? But we don't have because we don't ask. I wonder what the time ratio would be.

I asked myself this recently. If I looked at my time watching the news reports, okay And talking heads versus time praying about this. Uh-oh.

Does it have to be one-to-one? If I watched a half-hour newscast, do I have to go then pray 30 minutes? No, that's legalism.

But I feel like if I actually knew that ratio, it would be pretty embarrassing. Uh if you're gonna be listening to a lot of it, be praying a lot about it.

Brad:
And the last thing I would say on the prayer point is Even if as you pray, you don't feel like it's making any difference in the person you're praying for, it may be a long time, but if you're praying the way that God has instructed us to pray, maybe it starts to change you. Maybe it has a change in your heart and how you view things and you won't carry the stress and the negative emotions that go along with seeing certain stories and everything else. It will start to change you. And people will see that in you as an ambassador of Christ.

Doug:
You know, you say that I realize I need change in my heart I'm I I need to be praying about this more because of responses that I've had in my heart recently. I really do. Um let's get to number five.

Have I let any cause? What was the last thing Jesus said? What did he want to leave them with, his disciples?

What did he say? Go make disciples of all nations. Have I let any cause other than Jesus' rescue orders become more important to me?

Good way to know if it's become more important how much time you're spending on it. Thinking about it, praying about it, uh talking about it. Am I or am I defined by any cause other than the mission of Jesus?

Not that you don't spend time on other things. But what are you defined by? A disciple of Christ is defined by making disciples of all nations.

So Jesus said, I've come to seek and save the lost. Why was Jesus here? I've come to seek and save the lost.

He said, Go and take the gospel to everyone in creation. So I wonder if the things that we're bombarded with in all these news cycles and the media and on social media have taken over more of our hearts' time. and passions than the very cause for which Jesus gave his life.

Because when when all this is over, what's gonna be left is people in eternity. in one place or another. And if our ultimate visa is heaven, if we are if we are um uh citizens of heaven first, the Bible says the more we grow closer to Jesus, the more we ourselves will feel like aliens in this world.

So why do we give so much of our attention, our emotions, our time to things that aren't even in eternal? versus what is, which is spending our time spreading the gospel.

Brad:
I think what comes to My heart and mind on that, Doug, is uh and it's hard to honestly to not get a little emotional as we're talking about this, which I wasn't necessarily expecting because Uh the more you this shows why it's so important because the more we talk about the people, the softer our hearts become. Because we realize that these individuals are each represent a soul that has an eternal destination. And so what comes to mind is as dad has talked about so often is Some of these stories from the Titanic and the one right now to me that stands out is uh the Titanic goes down and you have all these people in the water who are just looking for rescue, who are just looking for someone who will see them, who will care.

And people were going away in their lifeboats. And these lifeboats in many cases were half full. They they were not at capacity, but people were sitting in their lifeboats saying, Well, this is our group.

We're if we go back, they may pull us under. We don't know what's gonna happen if we if we get engaged with those folks and everything else. And what God is looking for is that we will turn the lifeboats around and say, we're not gonna leave these individuals lost and hurting.

We're gonna make sure that they know someone cares about them. And I realize that maybe you're not in a city where the immigration issue is a huge debate right now. But let's face it, it is nationally and it's going to continue to be, and so it comes to our doorstep.

So Look for that outcast person that is around you. Maybe it's not someone that is from another country, but maybe it is someone that you can just say, I see that they are lost and hurting, and I'm going to make room for them in my life because yes, and I we we're gonna come back to once more, as Doug mentioned before, how we vote, how we view things, these policies are important. And the word of God still needs to shape how we vote and how we look at things, but this is about the people, the individuals, and how we view them first and foremost as ambassadors.

Doug:
You know, as we wrap up here, like these three words just keep ringing in my mind, in my spirit. Uh, because it's what I need to take from today. And that is guard your heart.

Guard your heart. This is the enemy will take anything, this issue, a relationship, anything, to try to infiltrate and get you from being about love into being about anything else but that if he can just plant that that anger, if he can just uh plant that negativity That's what he would love to do. And and maybe you're listening to this today and you're like me and and you go, you know, it could be that other things are crowding God's call or his focus for us out more than it should be.

Maybe we need a course correction. I think I do. Um maybe it's time to join King David and say, uh Lord, search me, O God.

See if there is any offensive lay in me. Lead me in the way everlasting. I'm sorry, Lord.

Maybe I've allowed some of the magnets of our time to pull me away from things that matter the most and to infiltrate my heart from which Everything emanates from what I say and what I do. And Lord, just just bring me back to where I should be.

Brad:
Lord, we do lift that up to you right now as Doug said those things. We pray those, Lord, for me, for each of us here. For all the listeners, Lord, that um you would show us what we need to see in ourselves and any offensive way that may be in our hearts and our minds, Lord.

We give that to you. We pray we would see others as you see them, and that we would have the heart of Jesus towards those who are lost, those who are wandering, those who need someone to reach out to them. Not yes, with physical help, but also with that spiritual message of hope, which is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And we lift up our leaders together to uh today, Lord. We don't want to talk about it and not do it. So we pray that You would just give them wisdom and strength and grace.

Would they turn to truth? Would they pursue your truth? Which we know in some cases may be a long shot, but we pray that they would pursue your truth and how you want them to lead, how you want them to govern, whether it is at a local, a state, or a national level, Lord, we pray That you would just be with our leaders, the leaders of this land, and show them, especially in this issue of immigration, what you require of them, Lord.

We ask this and just pray all this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.

Doug:
Awesome prayer, Brad. You said even if something seems like a long shot. With God, all things are possible.

Let's act and pray that way. Guard your heart. Amen.

Brad:
And so from all of us, all of you, till next time, go mad